__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
1. So Yoda's knowledge makes up for the power gap. What?! Yoda when he duelled Palpatine literally only used Tutaminis and TK. His "superior knowledge" didn't come into play at all which means they must have been close in power. This makes no sense.
2. TFU Sidious struggled with a oneness amped Marek not normal Marek. The power Marek gained when he was amped was astronomical and was stated to "make the dark side of the force look like child's play" to paraphrase the text as I believe it said something of that nature but it's not exact I don't think.
3. Also if you employ this scaling you basically shoot yourself in the foot because if we go by this and that if Marek did indeed "give Sheev a desparate battle" then Sheev just prior to ANH was much more powerful than his TFU self as Vader as of TFU 2 could ragdoll Marek effortlesslyand The Emperor was more powerful than him.
4. Nexus's are greatly overexaggereated and given how easily Sheev won I don't really think off Nexus Luke would have faired much better.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
You're literally arguing with the source material, you do realise that?
He wasn't Oneness amped, lmao. He found clarity, more akin to Malgus. If he was Oneness amped, he'd have stomped Sheev because Oneness literally transforms you into much greater than your own potential. Marek's potential was greater than Sheev's. Plus, he'd be literally transforming into light if he was in Oneness.
When will this shit argument die? Read this post, because I'm too lazy to parrot Ant's 9 month old debunk of it:
1. Are you seriously arguing with the source material right now which later in your post you accused me of doing? LMAO. Malgus gaining clarity and recieving a rage amp is not the same as what happened with Marek.
Marek is literally stated to have embraced the force utterly:
Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child.
-The Force Unleashed
His power was such that it made his efforts with the dark side of the force look like those of a child indicaating a massive power increase which puts him astronomically above normal Galen Marek. If anything it's a great feat for Sheev that he held off someone as powerful as Marek while oneness amped.
Besides even if you were to conclude he was not oneness amped then my point would still stand because as I've proven Marek was massively more powerful than his normal self.
2. Ant's debunk proves nothing. Marek may have been exhausted but the problem with Ant's point is Marek was rage amped which should cancel out all negative conditions he was dealing with prior to the amp. In fact there are numerous instances of rage amps negating fatigue in Star Wars.
He stopped her before she flew off the edge of the roof, at least, but the grisly crunch of bones when she landed was unmistakable. Her head was bent at an impossible angle, and her eyes didn't track him as he ran toward her. "Juno!" A black-gloved hand grabbed his shoulder. He pulled away, howling with rage. His fallen lightsabers snapped into his hands and came instantly to life. With both blades moving in tandem, he struck out at his former Master using all his strength, all his rage, all his grief. Darth Vader blocked the blow, but only just. Starkiller pushed, and the Dark Lord stumbled backward.
--The Force Unleashed II
3. I love how you horrendously misinterpret that quote. Sheev stomping Luke was atributed to the nexus not him beating Luke. Besides there is legitimately no dark side nexus which would allow you to stomp someone you would lose to or be given a fight by. In fact given how strong Sheev was by that point I really don't think the nexus could have amped him that much.
I also love your hilarious double standards when talking about this. I've seen you claim that nexus's wouldn't assist Valk too much and that some of his feats are still appliable despite him being on a nexus yet you fail to do the same with Sheev when he is canonically more powerful than Valk.
LMAO.
Last edited by HP Legend on Nov 9th, 2018 at 05:21 PM
Besides AP his clones deterioration should logically negate the effects of the Daark Side Nexus. At best Sheev is only slightly more powerful than his normal self.
Accolades are obsolete. What matters is the feats. They are the only real "source" of debating.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
I've already read your CaV post against Az and nothing in there convinced me Vader wasn't capable of ragdolling a rage amped Starkiller. While it's true Starkiller wasn't amped for the whole fight the start is enough to at least show parity. The novelization makes it obvious Starkiller was angry at the start of the fight and this is echoed by Starkiller howling with rage when he attacks Vader. Vader then proceeds to ragdoll him and throw with apparant ease and is noted to be too powerful. This shows that Vader is comparable to a rage amped Starkiller or at the very worst slightly inferior and therefore seen as The Emperor is quite far above Vader basic logic tells us he's far more powerful than a rage amped Starkiller who at worst Vader is slightly inferior to. Therefore this validates my claim which is that The Emperor is masses more powerful as of ANH which was really all I was trying to prove. I'm not trying to prove Vader is masses more powerful than rage amped Marek just comparable to him which therefore places Sheev leagues above rage amped Marek which again supports my response to AP.
Distinguishing Sith Rage (Force Rage, Dark Rage or whatever sourcebook names it), a dedicated Sith technique, from the common usage of negative emotions to fuel their combat prowess - a basic modus operandi of the Sith - is not a simple task. Ant adressed that flawlessly, IMO.
Too many times arguments enveloping supposed "amps" are brought up just because certain character is said to be angry or furious.
yeah revan >>> vader imho but ant was clearly wrong there, trying to delve into rpg mechanics to explain away why starkiller wouldn't get a rage amp from screaming in hatred and attacking vader with all his might
Except this instance was amplification. He literally howls with fury and is stated to attack Vader with "all his rage and all his grief". This sounds an awful lot like a rage amp.
Yeah, the mental gymnastics to argue that he wasn't being amped because he didn't consciously use a technique in an RPG sourcebook (and TPM Obi Wan was? RotJ Luke was? Seriously?) are kind of ridiculous at this point, and were clearly ad hoc arguments to fit the evidence to a particular conclusion that some people want.
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Yeah people want so badly to believe Vader can't ragdoll Marek but all they use are the same debunked arguments and try to ludicrously claim Vader isn't capable of such a feat. I have to admit though the argument Ant used might actually trump all of them.
Why it was necessarily an amplification? By how much? For how long? Nowhere it's stated that the output of these feelings substantially changed Starkiller's combat prowess. And I didn't even delve into the fact that Starkiller was talking and experiencing visions in the meantime. So, even if, somehow, he did experience an unquantifiable "amp" that was ignored by the literature, there's little to support it lasted beyond the couple of blows that Vader "only just" intercepted.
Of course, assuming Starkiller was amped just because of that passage would also implicate on Vader being amped after Starkiller touched on subject of the Resistance: the literature even goes to the point to affirm "he had it a very deep nerve.", and Vader's prowess increases after that mention.
So, honestly, I don't understand why you are so zealous with this contention, in particular.
Nov 7th, 2018 03:15 PM
