In Morrison”s cosmology, the Overvoid was a sentient being that was unaware of the concept of story until it discovered the DC Multiverse, which prompted it to send Dax Novu to investigate. In Snyder”s cosmology, The Presence/Source/Prime Monitor exists “at the end of the void” and is the generator of the concept of stories across the entire void, which contains an infinity of Multiverses. The Overvoid is not sentient in Snyder”s cosmology and Perpetua can traverse it freely and even tear pieces from it. They”re not reconcilable.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
How do we know Snyder's void isn't Morrison's overvoid?
As far as I've read, he never actually claimed anything about it either way. It could be the very same setting from Morrison's story, but of course no one within the DCU will talk about the sentient void because from their point of view, it is just a body of non space.
That doesn't make it retconned as a dumb non space.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Mandrakk eating stories doesn't make him beyond the Source, because the Source is the blank page, 'God', who sent Mandrakk from outside story to investigate the story inside of it. He was corrupted and turned into the entropy of the very concept of story -- but not before he created the Thought Robot -- the most powerful idea in creation that is capable of becoming as powerful as he needs to be to defeat anybody. The ultimate defender. Mandrakk and the Thought Robot/Superman are the ultimate concepts of the Overvoid. The ultimate duality of the very concept of story and not story.
Perpetua, like Manhattan, are just mechanism through which story is developed. With negative energy [Crisis/Reboot energy] or with positive energy [Anti-Crisis/Legacy energy]. By characters believing in good. By characters believing in bad. By characters being selfish. By characters being selfless. But all of those mechanisms -- all of those ways to tell the story, are still ultimately intrinsic to the concept of story itself -- of which Mandrakk came outside from, in contact with, and became its ultimate hyper-devourer. Perpetua using the Final Crisis events with Darkseid/Mandrakk for her own purpose doesn't negate any of this.
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“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
John Ostrander already went into this sort of cosmology in his run on Spectre, when Jim Corrigan went around to different representations of cosmology like Deadman, and Zeus, and ranted all the creation myths couldn't possibly be true at the same time.
And he got laughed at for using human logic on cosmic scales. The message was that every single god and story of creation can in fact all have happened. Even if seemingly conflicting each other.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Mandrakk is supposedly "eater of stories" conceptually, but even he has limits. Sometimes titles don't mean much when it comes to actual showings. In regards to Mandrakk, the very thing he is supposedly above of can still affect him comprehensively.
Morrison: Superman and Mandrakk, Predation and Protection, Greed and Preservation, Ugly and Beautiful, Youth and Age, Good and Evil, Black and White, Is and Isn't and all the others. Beyond that crumbling ledge in Monitor-World, those concepts don't exist and it's all non-dual Monitor mind, or God, or Kirby's Source, in which all contradictions are resolved into unity. It's funny, the more I talk about it, the more I'm getting into it! "
This boils down to whether or not you think Snyder has done enough to spit on Morrison's concepts yet. He's certainly tried but I don't think he understands the concepts enough to drive the final nail in the coffin. He's tackling a literal deus ex machina with just more raw power and taking bits and pieces from what he understands to attempt it. He's already used meta and imagination to put it 2 dimensions higher as well. The downfalls are that a) he doesn't understand it and b) he is setting himself up to go even bigger next time which leaves space for a story device.
I think Snyder would say he has accomplished raising all the steaks and seared them off beautifully, and he would absolutely write Perpetua above if he hasn't already. Or Steve Orlando would. But he hasn't adequately tackled the meta aspect of it; the idea that there's an ultimate story that can't be beaten, a literal playground idea of infinity times infinity.
I'd say in terms of comics, feats, big t-bone raised above restaurants steaks and whatnot that Perpetua wins. In terms of ideas and non tangibility Superman wins.
I like the idea of an ultimate story beyond stories, but that's hard to persist when lesser writers want to follow the same veins. And a direct retcon would be a literal "well this story includes that story beyond all stories haha" like a real hack, though I guess the idea of it existing in the first place is hackish excluding context.
Meh. I think both sides with the yt people and the latino yt people have merit. Not really something with a definitive answer considering the homosexuality of it all.
Sure do hate Snyder though. Didn't he actually touch on the Thought Robot or am I misremembering?
The Snyders [Zack/Scott] took the work of two writers [Alan Moore/Morrison] and adapted it without truly understanding them [Watchmen/DC Cosmology] which is absolutely hilarious. It must be a cursed name.
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“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
Don't get me started on people believing in a Snyder cut saving JL. Snyder's are the worst and I don't believe in no relation when they're just twins in different mediums. All flash, no substance:
At least Jim Starlin knows enough to stay in his lane. Sticks to Thanos conquers everything yet again stories, in his own little niche end of comic space.
Infinity Gauntlet was his lightning in a bottle, and he's never reached the same heights in DC. There's a reason Death of the New Gods and Synarr hasn't been talked about by anyone ever again.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Yes on Ewing. I like that he has a plan.... A map of sorts. He's not the best writer out there, but his hierarchy is fairly coherent or coherent enough i should say. Plus I like that he still keeps a veil on the end game which gives his cosmic heirarchy a fog of mystery.
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Last edited by celeyhyga17 on Mar 12th, 2021 at 07:57 PM
Essentially full of school girls and dominatrix's.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
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Mar 12th, 2021 06:39 PM
