'He was too dumb to think of Shattering the mountain?'
How exactly did he get out ?.... He Punched his way out. And yet he never once thought of using his full strength during this process. Bullshit !!!!!!!!!
Ultron can successfully take on entire teams. Yet a mechanical duplicates of himself strained lifting 90 tons. Why is it that he can take on entire teams? He's made out of Adamantium. He therefore cannot be hurt. Juggernaut has greater durability than even Ultron. He also has greater strength.With this in mind think it becomes quite apparent why he has had victories.
I've seen the Sky scraper thing....Impressive, yet it is pail in comparison to the Other character's feats. Yet it is probably Juggernaut's most impressive feat. And don't forget the building was unstable due the previous explosion.
Juggernaut has never shown that he is as strong as most of the other characters in this discussion.
Could you please quote me correctly? That's not the entire sentence, and that line you took out of context is not word-for-word either.
Weren't those Ultron clones second-grade? Ultron was a higher class of admantium I believe, and also, the admantium used to create those clone Ultrons seemed shoddy in comparison with the real one.
Think about the durability-strength comparison this way: Juggernaut has taken on beings with super-speed, such as Hulk and Thor. While Thor chose to play dumb, like he does from time to time, Hulk fights to the greatest extent of his ability, utilizing his full speed, which is at the very least, Mach 3. Yet Juggernaut can hand Hulk his ass from time to time. Secondly, Juggernaut has KO'ed the Thing in 3 blows. It takes the Hulk far longer, yet, of all the people on this list, he is far-and-away the strongest if angry enough. His limit does not exist, as he has axtually demonstrated infinite strength before. Yet, he still cannot defeat the Thing relatively quickly. He has shown strength greater than that of Celestials, yet he cannot completely crush the Thing like Juggernaut did. Even if you make the argument that it is due to Hulk's relatively low starting threshold, his strength grows in leaps and bounds. And if Hulk, literally the strongest there is, has not shown the ability to decimate the Thing in the way that Juggernaut has, it follows that Juggernaut is, at the very least, a high CL 100.
At what point was mine based on a crossover? I assume you're talking about an inter-company crossover, not a company-wide crossover, as I used only Thing, Juggernaut, and the Hulk in my argument. If you mean Secret Wars, I know it is considered bull by many people, but it is still canonical, regardless of how terribly written it was. Only crossovers that match characters from a different company against characters from a company separate from the former company are not considered usable in a debate on these forums. Dismissing a fact just because it does not suit your argument is not a viable tactic in a debate. Anyways, the argument before the one you just ridiculed was not based on a crossover. All you're doing is attacking my argument. If you want to win, you will eventually need to prove that Juggernaut is weak instead of just insulting my posts.
Last edited by Hulking Hurler on Aug 26th, 2005 at 10:54 PM
Yeah but if your going to use Hulk when in Rage what about Drax with the Power Gem and When he fought Thanos when he is enraged. Also Where is Kurse in this Match
Thats because Thing ain't going to sit there and Brawl with Hulk he would get his butt handed to him he uses skill when he fights Hulk. Also this crap about Superman Lifting 100,000 tons Hulk has held a Moutain which I heard weight 150,000,000,000 tons
Crossover's are considered dubious evidence to say the least.
I have given two examples:
The mountain thing + the fact that him knocking over a Sky Scraper is his best feat.
His Victories are all explained by his durability.
+ Hercule s knocked out the Abomination with one punch. This is far more impressive than the incident with the Thing. Herc and Thor are pretty much physically equal. Their feats of strength are far more impressive than Juggernaut's.
Until Juggernaut proves he has the strength of these characters he is not as strong as them.
Innocent Until proven guilty as one might say. You say he might be that strong. I say he hasn't proved it.
Dubious, yes. Completely false, no. Crying wolf over such a thing could elicit a response where I cry wolf on every low showing in strength Juggernaut has ever had.
You're saying that every single one of his victories can be explained by his durability? Every one? Sure, they might not be able to harm them, but if he was truly as weak as those examples show him as, he would not be able to harm them either. He'd be a meat puppet, knocked around but unable to be harmed.
Hercules and Thor aren't exactly physical equals, I would say. Thor needs the boost of Mjolnir to put him on the same level as Hercules.
He is innocent until proven guilty, yes. But, the lack of proof of his power does not means that he is immediately powerless. For example, you could say that TOAA is a weakling because he has displayed no feats showcasing his power. Sure, his place is above that of the Living Tribunal, but still, the importance of someone's position does not necessarily mean that they are immediately greater than their underlings.
He has, by simply stalemating them in strength. What more can you ask for? Do you want him to magically find the midgard serpent? C'mon, don't be dumb.
Use your eyes, he's as strong if not stronger than anyone on earth.
Mann and you accused me of taking things out of context ????????
I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before someone used the example of a really powerful guy like L.T. not doing anything .... therefore he is not powerful, in there argument. Talk about scraping the barrel.
I never said that Juggernaut is a weakling !!!!!!!!!! (For some reason you think i have.) If you go back and look at my List, I have him above Ultimate Colossus, which means he can Lift thousands of tons. If Ultron, Thing, Ulik, Iron Man, Wonder Man and co, can hurt Thor (while being Level 6 characters) Juggernaut is really going to hurt him. Especially If Thor's (and Co's) attacks are doing nothing.
I just don't think he is as strong as Thor, Herc , Superman, Wonder Woman , Hulk and co. I think even Namor has done more to suggest he is stronger than Juggernaut. But he is not a weakling. As said before Ultron was owning Thor, and Juggernaut's strength and Durability are far superior to Ultron.
"Juggernaut has, it follows that Juggernaut is, at the very least, a high CL 100."
"Juggernaut has never shown that he is as strong as most of the other characters in this discussion."
Its actually a bit of both. He is in the same footing than the others high cl 100. But he isent stronger. Not in average anyway.
"Hercules and Thor aren't exactly physical equals, I would say. Thor needs the boost of Mjolnir to put him on the same level as Hercules."
They have stalemated strenghtwise without weapons, more than once. The reason why Herc gets the nod its because he always seemed to take on Hulk better with his bare hands than Thor did. And taking the fights less serious. Thats an example btw. Even if Thor -is- weaker its not in any way by much. A notch its a better take. My take at least.
"His bio says that his strength has a unknown limit. How many other characters bio says that"
If you go by handbooks?
Lets say Hercules did had that stated in his bio before.
Last edited by olympian on Aug 26th, 2005 at 11:25 PM
I accused you of taking things out of context because you keep on misquoting me. Also, would you please stop attacking my tactics and just argue?
Ultimate Colossus is not all that strong. He has many high-end showings, sure, but basically everyone on this list has greater feats than him. Also, Ultron and Iron Man possess amazing technology, Ulik is on par with Thor, and the Wonder Man that beat Thor also killed Count Nefaria, who is a routine teambuster. Thing has harmed Champion, and even though he got smacked down a few panels later, he hurt him. Thing is a terrible example to use in a case like this, considering how easily Juggernaut destroyed Thing, which means that Juggernaut is a match for Thor in basically every physical category.
Also, Juggernaut's durability could factor into this competition, depending on whether its deadlifting or benchpressing. Also, Ultron has demonstrated strength beyond Class 90 before. Using that as the standard for Ultron would be akin to using Korvac thawarting the Living Tribunal as the standard for either Korvac of LT.
Dude attacking people's debating skills, is what i do. It makes me feel better about myself. You should try it... you'll love it. Its hard to survive on this forum without doing it a little. Any way its been good debating with you. You might be a newbie, but your a knowledgeable guy (I sound like G.S. ) Any way its good to have you aboard. Don't take this the wrong way but i don't agree with you. But i have to be up at 5 in the morning, so I'm going to bed. Anyway until next time.
But isnt it funny how when Hulk first fought against Superman it took Hulk like 3 days of fighting to even reach Supes level, Its all a matter of what the writer feels like writing.
He had adrenaline when he held that mountain because his friends had no protection from the mountain they were knock out. I believe if he was in that situation There may be no one who could match his strength. Also I seen Spider-Man going in and Fight the Hulk but I never seem him go up to juggernaut and Fight him also In one book it shows Juggernaut ripping the side off a building to get to Spider-Man I seen Juggernaut toss a bus at Thor like nothing I also seen Juggernaut have a game of catch with Colossus and winning. I even seen him get grab by Colossus and then Juggernaut toss like a kid. I am not trying to be a smart a$$ but just thought these were pretty good feats of strength.
Ulik is Class 90.
On par with Thor my socks.
Ulik usually show his own against Thor cause he's a troll, trolls are a warrior race, brutals and ruthless, Thor usually doesn't goes all out on his enemies, just like Supes.
When Odin died against Surtur, Thor teleports to the troll realm to ask an oracle if Odin was still alive.
He K.O.ed Ulik in like 2/3 shots, showing that when's he's enraged or mad you shouldn't mess with him.
Juggy is a match for any hero on Marvel Earth, his strenght hasn't showed a limit, and his durability is the best there is, he is indestructible.
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Aug 26th, 2005 10:18 PM
and you accused me of taking things out of context ???????? 
