with regard to the beast thing i never followed anyone blindly i too have read certain encylclopedias where it stated that emma frost can lift 70 tons in her diamond form... and they have her at 5. i hate to sound like im coming off as combative but that bio is old dude, the legacy virus incident came waaaayyy before second mutations, and Trish Tilby has been out of his life since early '99.
Marvel is obviously having a migraine from all that low grade skunk weed they're smoking.. cuz they have mystique at level 3 when she clocks in at about vampire level...800-1ton. there is a big disparity and if anyone doesnt see that they're smoking skunk weed too. if beast is 5 and can ONLY lift TWO tons, then that means that guys like luke cage and spiderman should be off the freaking charts then(who marvel.com lists both at 4 BTW) and i wouldnt even wanna think about rogue and thing, by that measure there shouldnt even be a classification for them they should be in the stratosphere
the old school class10-100 wasnt perfect but it was much better than the confusing shit they have today....im sure all would agree
but to me it doesn't make sense to upgrade someone from 1 to 2 tons, that's an unnoticeable difference (so what instead of being able to lift a jetta, now beast can lift a buick?)
if you're gonna upgrade someone, you would make it significant enough so you can see a difference, wouldn't you?
How strong are the Marvel Big guns, the real big guns. They are obvioulsy over 100 tons but by how much. How strong are marvel writers currently depicting their strongest characters at.
I.E. these guys ; Hulk, Hercules, Sentry, Thing, Colossus, Namor, Atlas
Levels :
Just over 100 tons
As strong as Ultimate Colossus (i.e. a few KILo tons)
Mountain Lifting
Planet Moving
What do you think. Currently i think that Hulk, Sentry, Herc and Namor
are above Ultimate Colossus but below the mountain level.
Since we all agree that strength ranking over 100 tons in the Marvel system is way too vague, an idea came to me recently regarding a simple and familiar method to rate those who can lift way over 100 tons.
Kiloton Class: those who can lift a thousand tons or more.
Megaton Class: those who can lift a million tons or more.
Gigaton Class: those who can lift...well, you get the idea.
Further, each class can be divided into Low (single digit), Mid (double digit) and High (triple digit). For example, someone in the Mid Kiloton Class lifts in the range of 10 kilotons (10,000 tons) to 99 kilotons (99,000 tons). Someone in the Low Megaton Class lifts in the 1 megaton (1,000,000 ton) to 9 megaton (9,000,000 ton) range.
The main thing is, there is no getting bogged down by specific numbers (if so-n-so lifts 10,000 tons, then how can he hoist that 50,000-ton sub?) We can simply say he's mid-kiloton class, and we have lots of room for play, especially since so-n-so might be able to military-press 10 kilotons but can leg-press 50 kilotons.
Also, to say that (eg) Hulk is potentially megaton-class strength sounds cooler, IMO, than saying he's 100-ton class.
Comments/criticisms/suggestions welcome.
(BTW, Yahman, wherever you are, you asked me once to develop my own strength scale. So I did, going for simplicity since I couldn't match your thoroughness ).
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Last edited by Mindship on May 4th, 2006 at 11:59 AM
I think this is a good idea except its hard to quantify how sadistically strong certain characters are.
For example Thor has been shown to struggle lifting Skyscrapers on two separate occasions. He has lifted the Midgaurd Serpent, which is the size of a planet, but is mystical in nature and therefore might not have a traditional mass. WE conclude from this evidence that the Midgard Serpent is as heavy as a Skyscraper, which is ridiculous.
There are various examples of these inconsistencies and fluctuations, which is why it is better to class characters strength levels with specific terminology, rather than mathematical statistics.
I definitely see your point. The fluctuations and inconsistencies are absurd. That's why I went for broad ranges ("Kiloton" Class, "Megaton" Class), hoping to cover all/most feats. Yet, some inconsistencies are so broad, that only indefinite terms like "Incalculable" or "Immeasurable" may apply. However, it is also the very vagueness of those terms which makes it difficult to compare/rank characters via their profiles (which, for example, would be stronger: Immeasurable or Incalculable? Seems like a subjective call: it's whatever we want it to be).
There are advantages/disadvantages either way. Thanks for the feedback.
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Last edited by Mindship on May 4th, 2006 at 02:24 PM
Question: given the wide (often absurd) fluctuations in what a character is seen to lift, might it be better to rate a character's strength on the average weight lifted? Or perhaps even better, base it on the mode of their lifts (for those unfamiliar with statistics, the "mode" is basically the most common/most frequent value). This way, what's stated in a power profile is not seen as a limiting factor but more like "business as usual," and the uncharacteristic or supergigantic feats of strength characters occasionally display may not seem so outlandish or out of character.
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Actually there are stats one can look up to determine the p.s.i. impact of either the average person or a boxer (I'm sure I have notes on this somewhere). Let's say it's about 1000 psi. If you have a character that is 1000 times the strength of an ordinary joe, well, then, we can estimate that--all else being equal-- that character's punch would deliver about one million psi. For what that would mean in terms of materials, though, one has to determine how much psi would be needed to, say, knock through a brick wall.
The thing is, the info is out there, and mastering the Power Google is the way to find/figure out all this stuff.
Just for the hell of it, some of the more obscure factoids I've come across...
1. It would take about 20 average men to lift one ton overhead. This means a character who can press 100 tons has the strength of about 2000 men.
2. We all know the term horsepower. It's equal to 746 watts. But what about "manpower?" That's equal to roughly 100 watts. This means a character with the strength of 2000 men is utilizing about 200 kilowatts of power.
Ah, fun with absolute nonsense...
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Ugh, finding P.S.I calculators and info is horrible.(please log in to view the image)
Believe me, Namor is underwater guy, and there is no way of calculating the amount of times I have searched for pound-per-square-inch stuff to calculate his way of surviving underwater...because it's quite impressive to survive that deep.
Yeah, it is. Physicists and engineers differentiate between force and pressure, something us laymen couldn't care less about ("Just gimme the numbers, dammit!"). I don't wanna deal with pascals, newtons or foot-pounds.
I found this...
“Back to ocean water pressure. It turns out that for every 33 ft of water depth we go down, the pressure increases by almost 15 pounds per sq in (psi). There’s more water piling up and pressing down more heavily as we go deeper. If we’re sending the cups down 4920 ft, then how much pressure in lbs/ sq in is on them? Take 4920 ft divided by 33 ft is 149. So we multiply 149 times 15 psi increases which gives us a total increase of 2236 psi. Imagine 2200 lbs on you; this is more than a ton. It’s a lot or pressure!"
What I haven't been able to find is how would pressure-resistance translate into watts/joules. I try to relate everything to energy: strength, speed, durability. It is fun to see what you get IF you find the numbers/formulae you need to figure it out.
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