I'll admit that I over-estimated the height of the tree (quite a bit) and would say it would probably be closer to 75 feet tall or so. I also did a little calculation, based on the height of the truck, versus the height of the tree (about 1.25 inches versus 8 inches), and assuming that truck was about 12 foot tall, that would also make the tree around 75 feet long.
Regardless, I looked around, and found a tree that had a fourteen inch diameter, and was 33 feet tall. Guess how much it weighed?
Approximately FOURTEEN tons!
Look at the three in the picture! It's wider than friggin Captain America! The diameter appears to be AT LEAST thirty inches. Likely many more.
There is no way the tree only weighed five tons. No way it weighed even as few as TEN. That thing was thirty, minimum.
Ive seen alot of people saying that a punch from Spidey would "splatter" Ult. Cap, this is untrue. Cap was able to land some very impressive punches, that even brought Hulk to the ground:
Don't think I'm implying that cap can outright beat the Hulk, because after this point Cap got a severe beatdown, but not even punches to the head from the Hulk "splattered" Cap:
Some woods can have densities of up to fifteen hundred kilograms per cubic meter. Lead is closer to eleven thousand kilograms per cubic meter.
If you really want to go the mathematical route - let's do it.
Say my estimations were correct, and the tree was 75 feet tall. That's 22.86 meters. Cap is a pretty broad guy, I'm sure, from shoulder to shoulder he's at least around 30 inches, if not more. And the tree's width DWARFED his own. Meaning the tree's diameter was probably around 1-2 meters. Let's go with the average - 1.5.
The volume of the tree would then be (approximately) pi*r^2 * h
or
40.40 cubic meters. Fifteen hundred kilograms per cubic meter? Thirty tons.
(It would be 230 tons if it were made of lead, )
Is any of this to mean that Cap is a constant thirty-tonner? No. Not exactly.
Just that he is sure as HELL stronger than a five tonner.
Not to mention putting the Hulk down with some strikes, taking out Pym while Pym was sixty foot tall, and being relatively unaffected by a double hammer fist from the abomination.
Is that a joke, making fun of me, or did you actually somehow calculate that the tree would weigh seven thousand tons?
If the former - I don't think your motives are exactly clear, because I very well defended my position. Throwing random insults out isn't going to invalidate it.
Perhaps (I'm not gonna search around the net to disprove you ) but Cap wasn't holding up the whole tree... it was still on the ground, meaning he was probably holding less than half it's full weight
Really, dude. I understand what you're saying, and I LOVE that you're bringing math and logic into this, but it's just that it's a bit flawed. For one, that tree is 3-4 feet in diameter at the most.
1 ton is a lot. 5 tons is obviously much more. I don't see that tree being anywhere near 30 tons (60,000 lbs).
A legal, fully-loaded 18-wheeler's max weight is 40 tons (80,000 lbs.). A regulation-sized bus is anywhere between 9.5-10 tons (19,000-20,000 lbs). I just can't see that tree, even being as big as it is (looks to be about 55-60 feet long), weighing even as much as a bus and coming nowhere near an 18-wheeler. Otherwise, an 18-wheeler couldn't transport as many large logs at once like it does.
And honestly, I never denied that Ult. Cap isn't hardcore. Cuz he is. In fact, I think he beats a lot of street levelers. But I just feel that Spider-Man is in another league, able to pretty much hand Cap his ass. He's far superior to Cap in every single category except for fighting skills. But when you're abilities far outshine your opponent's, you don't need to have amazing fighting skills.
I'm not saying that Ultimate Captain America wins this fight, Metalman. Look back to my original post, I gave Spidey the majority. I'm just pointing out (and proving, really) that the tree was quit a bit more than 5 tons. The eighteen wheelers, for one, rarely carry logs that are wider than a man. They usually carry FAR more smaller logs. Also, it isn't uncommon for a loaded eighteen wheeler to be twice (or more) the weight of an unloaded one. They can haul many times their own weight - that is why they are efficient.
Besides that, you said that the tree was 3-4 feet? Well, in my calculations, I assumed that the tree was only about 4.5. I don't see how the six inch discrepancy has gotten you so riled up, .
And fact is, I used (sound) logic and mathematics to show that the tree WOULD have weighed around that. Hell, sequoias really can weigh THOUSANDS of tons. That wood adds up! And as a tree gets larger, it actually becomes DENSER. Regardless of whether YOU think the idea of a thirty thousand ton tree is logical, it is. Quod Erat Demonstrandum. .
Anywho, none of that is really the point in the thread. Like I said at the start of this post - I agree that Spiderman will take a majority. But not due to VASTLY superior strength; rather due to VASTLY superior speed, and the fact that Ultimate Captain America has no idea how Spiderman fights or acts. Not to mention the lax skills compared to his 616 counterpart.
Ultimate Cap won't be winning...but he isn't getting a fist shoved through his chest, and he isn't being radically overpowered by Spidey's strength. It's all about his speed.
Yeah I was being sarcastic, but I didnt mean for it to be a jab at you. I actually do agree with your take on it, In the panel with the guy saying "Oh, $^*@!" you can see that the diameter of the tree is still huge and that is just the diameter from about 30 feet up the tree.
Too true. In that particular panel, it looks like the tree is as wide as two or three Soldiers. Easily 2 meters, judging by that panel.
I was going with the one where Cap is actually shown holding it, but it is vague, because it looks like he is supporting one side of it, while the other is hanging off of his body.
. Regardless, I think it's now obvious that the friggin tree was a little larger than five tons.
Not to mention the impulse that something that large would be carrying as it whacks the ground...
Okay, I guess we were in agreement all along then. I think I just missed the part where you said Spidey gets the majority. I also never said Spidey would shove his fist through Cap's chest, never thought that would even happen.
But yea. Spidey's versatility is what wins this fight.
I know that you didn't say that it would be the outcome of the fight. Someone else posted that, and I contend that Ultimate Cap is outlcassed in neither strength nor durability.
Simply speed, agility, and webbing. Really clinches the match for Spiderman.
Well, honestly, as strong and as durable as Ult. Cap is, Spider-Man actually DOES still outclass him in these categories as well. Just not as much as the other ones.
And yes, the armor's cloak. I always forget about that in debates.
I'm not confident that Spiderman outclasses his durability. Taking several shots from the hulk like they were nothing, jumping out of planes without a parachute, survivng a nuclear explosion, taking hits from abomination....Ultimate Captain America is pretty friggin durable.
Strength, I would likely give a (small) edge to Spiderman. I know that Spidey is RUMORED to have increased his strength, but he hasn't any feats yet to put him above 15-20 tons, at most. I figure Ultimate Cap is at least 10-15, so he isn't radically outclassed. He's beaten, sure, but not outclassed. :-D.
Now...how about Ultimate Cap's strength and durability, with 616 Cap's skills and knowledge, and whoever has superior speed's speed?
I'm tempted to say that Captain America would manage a majority in such a situation, .
I love Cap, both 616 and Ult., but Spidey is just in another league.
And I really wouldn't, no matter how strong Ult. Cap appears to be, put him anywhere near the 10-15 ton range. The only strength feat he has is that tree. If he were that strong, he'd be tossing cars around and literally knocking Hulk hundreds of feet away with each punch.
KMC Community Forums
Oct 23rd, 2006 04:43 PM
what does this fight have to do with anything?
)
) but Cap wasn't holding up the whole tree... it was still on the ground, meaning he was probably holding less than half it's full weight
. Regardless, I think it's now obvious that the friggin tree was a little larger than five tons.
