"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."
―Tobin
It's not a theory. It's a statement with nothing to contradict or disprove it.
You really are acting like an ass and the hostility I could do without.
Revan isn't a Sith. Thus, he's not on my list of Sith. Deal with it.
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
There's nothing to say it's wrong so I'm saying it's right.
You get over it.
I'm the one using statements and facts. You're the one arguing against what is outright said in the game. There's no proof it's wrong and it's nothing more than your own OPINION that it is.
From what I've seen of your debating tactics, you are the LAST person to even attempt saying something like telling me to get smarter. It's like the pot that has been soaked in lava calling the kettle black.
Then don't comment on it.......
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
Last edited by Shin_Nikkolas on Apr 21st, 2007 at 03:36 PM
DS, you care enough to comment, so let's not go into that. As far as Ragnos is concerned, we can still debate his prowess objectively. That he was proven to be the strongest of the Ancient Sith does speak strongly for him, and he is certainly one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever. Only when we try to put him as "number two" do the waters get murky and more evidence is demanded. But, even though we haven't seen much of him, it is a canon fact that he was the strongest of the Ancient Sith, and - since I use "quotes" more than anybody - I would argue and rabidly defend that he is one of the best ever, so I don't see why he should be excluded.
That said, Nik is right in one aspect: Ragnos required a scepter to what Nihilus could do naturally. His uber-drain is obviously something that warrants respect and notation.
Okay, what we KNOW of Ragnos means, as you say, he is > Sadow, Kreesh, etc..
But it is still difficult. For instance, does Kun > Sadow? If so, then how do we guage Kun's power in proportion to Ragnos'? They both > Sadow and that's as far as we can go for judging Marka's power while with Exar, we have feats of his abilities.
I'm not saying Ragnos is Darth Krayt-level in power (about as low as you can get) but I just don't feel there is enough of his abilities known to put him above very worthy candidates like Kun and Bane (IF Bane moved a moon...can someone tell me if he actually did that?)
I'd be willing to give him my #4 or #5 spot..if Bane didn't move a moon, then I'd rank it thusly:
1. Sidious
2. Nihilus
3. Exar Kun/Ragnos
4. Exar Kun/Marka Ragnos
5. Still need to find #5 if Bane didn't move a moon.
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
How do we know that Ragnos required the use of his scepter for this ability Escape? You do realize that someone who can pour that force ability into the scepter would more than likely be able to use it himself? Not to mention Nihilus' technique was simply amplified because he was a wound in the force, and Ragnos' scepter could elso give force abilities to non force sensitives.
Ragnos was the most powerful of all the ancient sith, so it's more than obvious that he knew techniques Exar Kun and Bane have never heard of, seeing as how neither one of them learned as much as Ragnos or lived in that era, so I find it unlikely that anyone is above Ragnos, except for Sidious.
Yes. It's funny how people try to discredit the ancient sith because they had amulets(which btw were used to pass down history as well, making them convient multitools), instead of giving them credit for having the ability to create tools to pour their power into.
Nihilus' force drain, force storm, thought bomb, anything Exar Kun did, etc. There you go.
Yet again, Ragnos dying was the end of the Golden Age, meaning while Ragnos was the most powerful, Sadow and Kressh were certainly not up there with the ancient sith that came before. Since they created the most techniques, they are deemed very powerful.
I give them full credit for having the ability to create things like those amulets.
But it doesn't say much for what they can do on their own. We have a lot of ith who came after them with nothing augmenting their powers and still showing us more power than the Ancients ever did.
It says in the Book of Anger that Sidious made Force Storms, I thought.
Okay, fine then. Simus and Ragnos are the top dogs of the Goden Age?
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
Right on queue computer addict. I don't care what you give them credit for. The fact is they had to know the techniques to fuse them together with the amulets, so the amulets could be used as multipurpose tools.
Yet another stupid post. "OMG they weren't shown to do anything without the amulets that means they can't!!!"
Nobody is talking about Sidious here. Sidious is the most powerful sith lord, and he was the only one to create techniques of his own. The force storm was derived from the ancient sith but Sidious took it to a whole new level.
Ragnos is the greatest and most powerful ancient sith.
Well, Ragnos is a Sith Lord, and Sith Lords don't like to share power, nor do they like to be dependant on things. So, why would Ragnos create a scepter that could be a potential threat to him if used in the wrong hands?
Really, you have no argument, DS. Sadow required a ship to make a star go supernova. Kun required amulets to perform the blasts of energy. Without these devices, they are unable to replicate the same feats. Why is Ragnos any different?
Explain how I don't have an argument when all of these "tools" have multipurposes? And explain how they "require" the amulets exactly? If they can fuse a specific force power into an amulet that also has another purpose for it, why is it such a stretch to believe that they can do it without the amulets? Obviously a ship is a ship but they had to know the technique to destroy star systems. They didn't just randomly make a magical ship and had a mage cast a spell on it to make it destroy systems. Ragnos' scepter was also his sword so why is it a stretch to assume that he made a tool which is much easier to use for a specific force ability, as well as his fighting sword?
Not to mention it didn't seem as if Ragnos would be scared of it falling into the wrong hands, because he pitted his enemies against each other.
Are you asserting that Sadow didn't require the ship to perform his uberfeats? DS, your fanboyism is showing. What other purposes did these "tools" have? Phillips screwdrivers? Oh, no wait - they were the Sith's version of a hammer?
You've got shit to work with. Now, perhaps you might team up with Nai and debate it, but you are asserting they didn't require the tools necessary, and so you must back it the hell up.
No, I clearly said that Sadow's ship didn't count but he DID have to know something about blowing up stars, otherwise there's no way a ship with "Sith" technology could do that.
I'm asserting that something such as the amulet was used as a multipurpose tool, and so was Ragnos' scepter.
You realize we've seen two issues on the ancient sith and yet they created all of these techniques, so I guess you're implying they needed tools. Yet at the same time the whole point is irrelevant because what they did with the tools, nobody else could do without them.
Apr 21st, 2007 03:10 PM
