nO matter how you slice it Superman is gonna feel hindered... His powers are his physical attributes... Str, speed agility flight and durability...
Scott has the same body.... Without the optic blasts....
Superman has a differen sized body without any of the physical attributes he is used to... And let's not forget that all this bs about how supermans kryptonian body is the same as a humans is bs. His mind as a jryptonians works faster to allow for the super attributes and mind,...
Superman has no idea what it would be like to be limited not just physically but mentally also....
__________________ Quotes from Hia8:
"I claimed that the science is sometimes faulty."
"You don't understand. This is fiction. That means none of this stuff really happened."
"There is no writer to purposely ignore a character's natural ability just because it suits the story."
"in some cases because the writer knows that Character A will dominate Character B easily and refuses to allow this to happen for the sake of the story."
You're reading to much into this. Heres the short version. There should be no argument after this.. are you ready?
It's my thread
It's my/forum rules
I say Superman is completely comfortable in this new body, his mind is totally at ease, he feels better than ever infact. He hasnt got his powers, but he's got the same brain/skills learned and physically he's in an exact replica of Cyke's body. So there is no disadvantage there. It's a skill battle, thats all it is.
Easy as pie to follow, only someone with some sort of mental ..blah blah
Not that im saying you're a mentalist or anything.
Well maybe just a little, afterall you are the ONLY one in this thread who see's an issue that isnt there.
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__________________
Carl - "No, the real point is: I don't give a damn."
Carl - "This line, here? Line of Death. You cross it, and your freedoms no longer exist. Um-kay? Have a good day."
Also in 52, he was powerless for a whole year.
Also he traded bodies with Batman before.
Supes has been without power many times in his career and did just fine.
__________________
I am God's mighty fist. I am God's strength made manifest.
Sig by: Skeets, S.S, thesilverspider, Sir SKEETS Alot
Cyclops may have defeated a few random street thugs there who apparently had no idea how to fight. See the guy trying to pull the piece? He runs over and falls on his own homey by himself and skids his face across the ground. Had that guy been halfway competent Cyke would have had more shiny in his mouth than Paul Wall.
Clark put it to Lex, who is trained in multiple martial arts by some of the best trainers a person can buy. Lex held his own against amazon warriors in hand to hand before[Hope and Mercy]. Have some better examples?
__________________
I am God's mighty fist. I am God's strength made manifest.
Sig by: Skeets, S.S, thesilverspider, Sir SKEETS Alot
Last edited by Juntai on Dec 31st, 2009 at 01:13 PM
Superman's fighting prowess shouldn't be questioned.
Besides the Lex one I mentioned while powerless?
JLA #23, he’s winning against a never-ending mob when powerless.
JLA: FOREIGN BODIES while depowered from body-swapping, he defeats Kobra, a top notch Martial Artist.
SUPERMAN #153 he takes-out Maxima with pressure-point attacks and impressive technical striking.
SUPERMAN/BATMAN #23: While powerless he paralyzes Batman’s body with pressure point strikes.
TRINITY #13: He takes on Ultraman and Superwoman and still beats them, including beating down Ultraman with technical strikes and pressure point attacks.
SUPERMAN: WORLD OF NEW KRYPTON #3: Superman lets the Kryptonian Gor smack him around a bit to gauge his ability. Then Gor claims he won. Superman states, “Beaten? I’m only getting started. We may have the same powers—-but I was taught hand-to-hand combat by Earth’s greatest proponent. He also taught me to learn my opponent’s weaknesses. You don’t have a clue about my capabilities yet, Gor……but you’ve shown me your whole catalogue.” Then he completely and utterly owns Gor with casual ease, three pressure point strikes then a punch and Gor’s down.
Granted, some examples are with powers, but against characters in his range in these cases, and did so with impressive striking/grappling and overall hand to hand technique, rather than relying on raw power. And this is just some examples if you dig through his archives.
__________________
I am God's mighty fist. I am God's strength made manifest.
Sig by: Skeets, S.S, thesilverspider, Sir SKEETS Alot
Last edited by Juntai on Dec 31st, 2009 at 01:28 PM
Ok. Please post the scans of the powerless fights you listed above. The ones in which he can depend on his super-speed/strength/durability are not relevant in my mind. Its not that I doubt your veracity, I just want to see and judge them for myself with interpretation and context being what they are.
__________________
Carl - "No, the real point is: I don't give a damn."
Carl - "This line, here? Line of Death. You cross it, and your freedoms no longer exist. Um-kay? Have a good day."
They're still entirely relevant when it's hand to hand prowess we're determining. Those are other times he's exhibited impressive martial arts skills, powers or not.
__________________
I am God's mighty fist. I am God's strength made manifest.
Sig by: Skeets, S.S, thesilverspider, Sir SKEETS Alot
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. To me learning how to fight when you strength is measured is the hundreds of tons and your durability is high enough to withstand ground zero of a nuclear detonation, is quite different than learning how to fight effectively within the limits of a human body.
__________________
Carl - "No, the real point is: I don't give a damn."
Carl - "This line, here? Line of Death. You cross it, and your freedoms no longer exist. Um-kay? Have a good day."
Fair enough, but his foes in these cases are not only his rival in those categories, but in the instances, he specifically showed impressive striking, grapllng, countering and pressure point attacks against the opponents showing clear martial skill.
__________________
I am God's mighty fist. I am God's strength made manifest.
Sig by: Skeets, S.S, thesilverspider, Sir SKEETS Alot
lol, Superman deflected bullets with a garbage can lid?!? Also, Superman has always struck me as a slightly skilled brawler. In the majority of his fights hes slugging it out with whoever hes fighting. Cyke trains in the danger room with some pretty good h2h fighters. It just makes sense that he'd have to given his smaller powerset.
The problem with Cyclops is that while we know he's a capable fighter, he just doesn't have the same number of on panel feats that Superman does. Yes, he took on six guys with his eyes closed, but they were just thugs. Yes, he was stated to have been Colossus' teacher when it came to judo, but how often have we seen cyclops do it himself? He's even been said to be the martial arts instructor at the institute, but again, we don't have the amount of on panel feats that will add susbtantial weight to the pro cyclops argument.
on the other hand:
superman HAS h2h feats. he's trained with batman, and regularly spars with wonder woman. he's trained with the rest of the justice league in their own facilities. whether powered or powerless, he has shown a definite amount of instances where he's used his hand to hand skills to devastating effect. sure, some were with his powers, but when the person he's fighting is in his strength and speed class, then it comes back down to skill.
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