Huh? You could pick Superman up you say? How you would do that? Lol. It's easier to say a person in this case, Superman does not exist. And... By following that, I don't think Superman (in a fight) would let you to pick him up, he would send a punch destroying your face. Unless you are Hulk or something, lol. Weird analogy. Oh! I almost forgot, Seymour didn't threw that monster... Did he? Vaan, on the other hand, hit Vayne sending him to fly like nothing. Ah, and... Hey, I suppose that monster is the 'whale' ? I suppose Seymour send that monster to fly and defeated it alone and only with his 'super-strength?' No. Right? Because he's a Mage, uses Magic, fights with Magic and kill with Magic. We don't really see much about the 'physical' strength from Vayne, but we do see Vaan's. The difference here is that Vaan isn't super-human, Vayne is a super-human, unlike Seymour, Auron and Yuna. (The ones whose defeated that monster, if I am not mistaken).
Hey, this does not help Seymour.
But we are comparing the characters from the Final Fantasy universe now and everything points out that there's nothing to suggest that eiher Vaan and Seymour are super-humans under their standards.
I have explained that already, I could say that the ones that use Magic are super-humans, yes, they are, but just compared to us. Magic is something normal in that universe, it's not that hard to understand, actually. Take Kytes for example, he was just a normal street boy, then he became a Black Mage, capable of using Magic. But he isn't super-human, he trained to achieve that. Same applies to Tifa, etc.
But he trained Tifa, therefore Tifa is a fighter thanks to him. No, mate. Zangan wasn't super-human, Tifa isn't super-human, you have absolutely anything to back this up. Zangan trained many people besides Tifa, but they aren't super-humans, the were normal humans, the same goes to Tifa. She trained to become what she is now. She is a strong martial fighter, but she isn't super-human. Is even stated that she wasn't on par with Loz (which IS a super-human) despite that in that fight, everything Tifa did seemed better feats than Loz, hell, she send him to a wall with a single punch. But guess what, in the end, she lost. Loz is stronger, he's super-human, Tifa isn't. Guess why Cloud lasted more in those fights against the Jonas Brothers, lol. (Loz, Kadaj, Yazoo) and defeated Kadaj. Take your time, you'll find out soon. So, sorry, you'll have to deal with this.
We all know that martial artists/fighters have greater/superior physical strength, speed, endurance, due of their training, Bruce Lee can kill me with just a single hit, trust me, they even learn lethal skills. But he isn't super-human. He's just very strong. So strong capable of breaking bricks. If I try to break a brick I will lost my hand for sure, I need training to achieve that, years of training. You can't train to be come a super-human, you can train to become a very strong human. Krillin has nothing to do with anything in Final Fantasy. Even so, Goku is stronger because Krillin is a human (in their own standard) and Goku isn't. Goku is super-human, etc.
Cloud is super-human. No you wouldn't in a fight. Bruce Lee either.
What argument?
Except he isn't super-human.
I don't even know at what are you replying to. Either way, I am dealing with you above. I'm sure this has something to do with it.
But Tidus isn't super-human...
So because someone in a cutscene shows his physical strength, you automatically claim that is super-human or that is stronger than the rest whose hasn't shown anything? That's ridiculous. You can't say Seymour is physically stronger than all the rest of the Final Fantasy X characters just because they hasn't shown physical feats, therefore they don't have any signs of strength and they are weaker. That's fallacy. So let's follow your faulty logic, Vaan is super-human and physically stronger than Basch, Balthier, Fran and the rest of those characters just because they hasn't shown any physical feats in a cutscene like Vaan, therefore they can't and they are indeed weaker than him? No, just no, that's fallacy.
It is faulty logic, I'm afraid. I have read very carefully your post, I am sorry, you are using a fallacy here, read above.
To be super human you have to have above human capabilities. So you can't train to become super human, because if it's a level that can be reached by a normal human, it isn't super human, is it? It's just a high level of human.
1. Yes, Superman weighs about 244 pounds last time I checked. I can lift that. Hell, I could throw that to the ground. I am not stronger than Superman however, nowhere near. Superman would in a fight yes, but my point is that you do not have to be stronger than someone to throw them. No, Seymour did not, he stopped its charge and pushed it back. Once again, try to stop a car on the freeway, PLEASE try to stop a car on the freeway. Vayne is also, you guessed it, much lighter than the Sinspawn. I was using an analogy buffoon. The Sinspawn is more akin to the size of an elephant, maybe. No, he did not make him fly, he just stopped it and pushed it back. Try to push a car when it is not in drive. He's a mage? So ****ing what? Being a mage does not make him physically weak clownshoes. Oh? We do not see Vayne's physical strength? Then please stfu about him being superhuman then? The Sinspawn is the size of an elephant, to support its own weight it would have to have superhuman strength, to move and fight it would need to be even stronger. So yeah, gtfo with that shit. Actually, show me this scene of Vaan throwing Vayne please.
2. Actually it really does, your incompetence is helping my case a great deal.
We know that normal FFX characters are helpless when faced with even the smallest of monsters. Facts are, most FF characters are, you guessed it, just as feeble as humans in our world. So yes, even by their own standards Seymour is superhuman. Superhuman means basically above human, if any aspect of him is above human, then he is superhuman.
Zangan may be, we do not know and probably never will. Nothing to back it up? Have you ever seen a normal human do anything Tifa did in AC? Hell, have you seen normal humans in FFVII do what she did? Yes, she is in fact superhuman. You're right, she was not up to par with Loz, though not because she was a "normal human." If normal humans are capable of that in the FFVIIverse, then why don't they solve their own problems? Your argument, much like yourself, is a giant clownshoe.
No, he couldn't. "Normal people" challenged Bruce Lee to fights all the time, none are dead, not even the one who broke into his house to fight him who he ended up giving a full-force roundhouse kick to the temple. Also, physically, Bruce Lee was not that strong either. Alot of great fighters are not particularly physically powerful, too much muscle can be a hindrance upon their fighting abilities. And... Bruce Lee is not even that a great fighter, he was a guy who made movies, so why are you bringing up him? And are you trying to imply Tifa and Bruce Lee are around the same level lolz?
Bruce Lee is such a crappy grappler I would not be surprised if I could.
On a serious note, you are not getting me. Is Vaan a reasonably skilled fighter? If so, would that not enable him to grapple and throw a physically superior opponent? The answer is yes, it would. But seriously, show me the ****ing scene.
4. Your argument, you know, the really shitty one?
5. Yes, he is. Are you trolling me? I find it hard to believe you are actually this thick.
6. Lol. "Dealing" with me. I have handled you like I handle myself on lonely nights son.
7. Jump into an eight foot deep pool with weights strapped to your body and try to sleep under there. Tell me how long you last.
You really do not get how this works. Let me explain this to you simply. There is no evidence of anyone being stronger than Seymour is in FFX, so we cannot assume that they are, and therefore must assume Seymour is stronger. It is kind of the same reason why I think Superman is stronger than a Servbot. Servbot has no physical strength feats, Superman has really good ones, so it is safest to assume Superman is stronger. This getting through to you? I did not say they cannot be, that actually would be a fallacy, I am saying that because Seymour's feats are superior, we must assume he is stronger. Vaan may be stronger, I do not know, FFXII is far to ghey for me to care.
8. You are committing the fallacy fallacy now my good sir, asserting that because I used a fallacy (I did not) my argument is wrong. Stop doing it.
Okay, I don't know what that showed. This person basically backed up what I was saying. People in Anime and Video games tend to do Super human stunts WITHOUT being super human. Did you think that article worked in your favor?
He even gave Batman as an example, a pretty good one too. Batman isn't super human, but he can do lots of "super human" stuff. It's exactly what I've been saying.
I don't know what 244 pounds are, we don't have that kind of weight in Argentina (Yes, I am from Argentina), if you could tell me by 'Kg' (Kilograms), that would be better. It doesn't matter anyway.
I think you're missing the point.
Why you bring Superman to reality? May I know that? Of course you aren't stronger than Superman, he's super-human, you sir, is not.
You wouldn't throw him in a fight, that's a joke. Unless he lets you, but I guess he wouldn't in a fight. All of this is irrelevant though.
We don't see that monster charging at Seymour at all, we see him, however, trying to advance and Seymour is just holding it, but for how long? He pushed it after that.
Normal people from OUR world can do that.
Try punching someone in the stomach and make that person fly through the air. And again... Dude, you are comparing them to US.
I never said that makes him physically weak. I said it doesn't make him super-human. However, being a Mage means he wouldn't fight monsters with his fists, secondly it means he would lose if he tries, and thirdly, it means he's owned by any martial artist inside Final Fantasy Universe.
We know his capabilities are beyond any Judge and human though. We can't say the same about Seymour nor Vaan. On top of that, Super-human does not only consists in physical strength alone, I suppose you should know this. If it does, then Bruce Lee is super-human. But nope, he isn't.
But Seymour didn't picked up that monster, that's the difference. Again you are using us and comparing us to them, that won't work, I'm afraid. Seymour fought the monster with Magic, not with strength. He's a Mage, remember? The video is in the Tidus Vs. Vaan thread, but here, the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnMm...player_embedded
Skip to: 6:30
I'm afraid that insulting me it does not help Seymour it just help you to look bad. Are you angry...? Got something against me? Why?
Normal people in Final Fantasy can defeat monsters though.
You are also helpless if you face Bruce Lee or Mariusz Pudzianowski.
I hope that helps. Plus... You could say Seymour's forms are above humans, thus super-human, but regular Seymour isn't super-human as regular Vayne isn't super-human either.
Zangan isn't. No bro, Tifa isn't super-human, Loz is super-human. She wasn't on par with Loz because Loz IS SUPER-HUMAN. Tifa is not. I don't understand why you are having problems to understand this. We can say Tifa is more skilled than Loz, but she isn't stronger than him. Tifa trained to become what she is, she is capable of doing what she does because she trained for it, not all the humans from the Final Fantasy VII Universe are martial fighters like she is. You can't train to become super-human. You can't suggest Tifa is super-human without any reason. Look at Bruce Lee for a moment, he's considered the best martial fighter in the world, there are millions of martial fighters in the world, but none of them are like Bruce Lee. We know Bruce Lee isn't/wasn't super-human, he trained to be like he was. He's just a very strong human, just like Tifa in the Final Fantasy universe. But not super-human.
Martial fighters can deal mortal blows, they can kill you if they hits you in determined parts of your body or if they uses determined skills. If you didn't know this, then you are an ignorant, no offense. Bruce Lee was not physically strong? He wasn't a great fighter? Are you joking or something? Being actor has nothing to do with his skills. No, I'm not saying Tifa and Bruce Lee are in the same level, you're losing it by asking that. I'm giving you a simple example of why Tifa isn't super-human, she's just a strong, very strong human.
Of course, at least more skilled than Seymour who is (by the way) a Mage, not a fighter. Or you're trying to say that Seymour is like Tifa? Lol. The video is above.
The shitty one? Oh, you mean the one that says:'diz guado dude iz superhuman cuz da rest of dat characters hasn't showed strength featzz, still theres nuthign 2 suggest hes a superhuman i call it superhuman cuz iwant 2!?'
He is what? And who? Seriously, at what are you replying to?
About who you're talking about?
HEZ SUPERHUMAN CUZ I SAY SO!!!
Lol, relax, don't take this topic so serious.
Lmao. I didn't said they are, you are saying they aren't. The burden of proof is in you. And Vaan is stronger than all the Final Fantasy XII Universe characters because of a cutscene? Stop being ridiculous.
This has nothing to do with anything. And you hardly makes any sense with your analogies.
But how do you know his feats are superior than all of the Final Fantasy X characters? From where you drawn this vague, fallacious and without any basis conclusion? Aren't you overrating Seymour so much?
That is called an "Appeal to Ignorance" and IS a fallacy. You cannot make that claim based solely on the fact that there is no evidence to the contrary.
If you want to make the claim Seymor is the strongest character in FFX, then you will need to back that up. It does not work to say that he is the strongest because we haven't seen anyone stronger.
You mean your conclusion is wrong? Because your argument IS wrong if you committed a fallacy. At least it's fallacious, I don't think an argument can really be wrong.
But that's true, just because the argument is bad doesn't mean the conclusion is wrong. However, it does mean that you cannot support that conclusion with that argument.
Like what? Stopping a sin spawn? And how do we know that no one else can do that?
Again, arguing that Seymor is the strongest just because we don't see anyone stronger is a fallacy.
Compared to us, maybe. But I see lots of people pull off stunts like that in the FF universe. Vayne may be super human, I don't know. I couldn't make it all the way through that "game", but Tifa isn't. Not by FF standards. Read that article NemeBro talked about.
It's called an "Appeal to Ignorance." It is a well documented fallacy, and it is faulty reasoning. Just because someone doesn't show that they are stronger, DOES NOT mean they aren't. Just because there is no evidence that someone is stronger than Seymor doesn't mean there isn't.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Pick up an intro level logic book and it'll tell you. Though you are right about one thing. it ISN'T that hard to understand.
The only ones doing Tifa stunts are Cloud, Vincent, Zack, Loz, Yazoo, Kadaj, all of the protagonists (except for Aerith), and maybe members from SOLDIER.
She isn't required to be super human to do things like that because it's a fantasy universe. Vaan sends a guy flying half way across the room, but he's a normal person. Tidus, and all the members of the Blitzball teams, hold their breath FAR longer than any normal human, but that's just what they are. Normal humans. Unless the plot specifically specifies that she's super human, there is no reason to think she is.
No, she isn't. For example, normal people in Final Fantasy XII can LEARN to use Magic or to Summon creatures, but they are regular people, they aren't super-humans unless there's something that suggest they are.
KMC Community Forums
You could pick Superman up you say? How you would do that? Lol. It's easier to say a person in this case, Superman does not exist. And... By following that, I don't think Superman (in a fight) would let you to pick him up, he would send a punch destroying your face. Unless you are Hulk or something, lol. 
Weird analogy. Oh! I almost forgot, Seymour didn't threw that monster... Did he? Vaan, on the other hand, hit Vayne sending him to fly like nothing. Ah, and... Hey, I suppose that monster is the 'whale' ? I suppose Seymour send that monster to fly and defeated it alone and only with his 'super-strength?' 
No. Right? Because he's a Mage, uses Magic, fights with Magic and kill with Magic. We don't really see much about the 'physical' strength from Vayne, but we do see Vaan's. The difference here is that Vaan isn't super-human, Vayne is a super-human, unlike Seymour, Auron and Yuna. (The ones whose defeated that monster, if I am not mistaken). 
Mar 31st, 2010 10:46 AM
Facts are, most FF characters are, you guessed it, just as feeble as humans in our world. So yes, even by their own standards Seymour is superhuman. 
