Out of curiosity what are peoples' thoughts on the stuff we see in the movies from the likes of Sidious (specifically where they appear to demonstrate a certain amount of effort that at times borders on a struggle, with a magnitude of energy that I believe we can all agree is comparatively speaking pretty mild, a quick example being Yoda's struggle with moving a pillar after his duel with Dooku), and how would you say it fits in with whatever your view of Sidious may be?
Sidious has just never shown anywhere near the power that bane or nihilus has. He even said himself that vader would become more powerful than him. And he did....
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You'd I'd say that since the movies are the highest canon these feats should not be ignored under any circumstances. Therefore by extrapolating the effort involved, I find it reasonable to deduce that Yoda can at best lift maybe 10 tonnes with the Force, Sidious perhaps a bit more. Sidious and Yoda are therefore at best average, but curtainly trailing behind ubermensch like Darth Bane. Also they are old, so that is also funny.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Apr 25th, 2011 at 05:21 PM
well, the problem being your definition of "struggling". I don't see a struggly from Yoda to move the pillar, he just can't move the pillar and chase dooku down at the same time. Where is the struggle? At 900 he lifts the xwing without a lot of effort. What are you talking about?
He performs the action in a far from timely manner, his facial expression is of such a manner that denotes a heavy strain being felt, his body visibly shakes throughout, all of which would suggest that it was a significant effort on his part to move the pillar away from Anakin and Obi-Wan.
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Last edited by Iden Enserath on Apr 25th, 2011 at 05:59 PM
i'm sorry, that didn't look like a struggle to me. He is way too calm about it to be much of a struggle...
So it is YOUR perception that he is struggling versus MY percenption, and a gigantic mass of evidence from other places in the movies and EU that suggests he wouldn't struggle with such a thing.
Uhmmmm... let me think here... NO, NO HE DIDN'T!! Vader NEVER reached his potential.
Well, since Bane isn't in any of the movies, it would be logical to compare his feats (C-canon) to Yoda's feats from sources other than the movies (i.e. The Clone Wars mini - T-canon). Yoda shows no signs of struggling when slamming the two landin craft together, as a matter of fact, it looked outright easy.
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No, it is MY analysis of his manner with respect to how effort is generally visually demonstrated by a person, both in actuality, and as far as how the director would choose to convey that, versus YOUR claim that it doesn't look like a struggle to YOU coupled with an incredibly inept observation on your part.
The physical response on his part heavily indicates that a struggle was taking place due to the irregularity of it with respect to his usual movements and manner in say, a resting state, not to mention the fact that it's heavily emblematic of how a struggle would generally be depicted, and is generally demonstrated. The amount of time that it took is heavily indicative that a struggle was taking place due to the fact that his priority, by all available evidence and reason, would be to catch up with Dooku and he would realistically perform the action as quickly as possible to maximise the possibility that he would be able to meet his objective.
Your observation that he was calm conflicts with the manner of his facial expression, both with respect to how it usually is in times of calm, and with how the director would choose to depict it if he wanted to make it look at all realistic with respect to how humanoid individuals generally express a state of calm, which by all available evidence is exactly how he generally has the character express himself.
Here, check out this clip. The pertininent part starts at 4:20. Dooku drops a pillar, Yoda reaches out, grabs, it, pushes it to the ground. No hesitation, not even a pause in his motions. There is one moment when he has stopped its pause, where he goes. "hmmm..." as though deciding where to drop it, then he does so.
I'm really not seeing the struggle.
Last edited by truejedi on Apr 25th, 2011 at 06:25 PM
Yoda is humanoid? You can see Yoda making those faces while WALKING in various places in the trilogy. Dude's a cripple, doesn't mean you have to dismiss him as weak. The entire thing, grabbing the pillar, stopping its fall, moving it to safety, takes a total of: 20 seconds. how is that a struggle? If his arms were shaking, that is one thing, but his aren't, he is merely moving them. Closing his eyes? He does that every time he uses the force.
Pg. 349, AOTC: "Yoda grabbed the crane and hed it fast, but in doing so, he had to release Dooku. The Count wasted no time, sprinting away, leaping up the ramp to his sail ship. As Yoda began to move the fallen crane harmlessly aside, the sail ship's engine roared to life, and all three Jedi watched helplessly as Count Dooku blasted away."
Apr 25th, 2011 04:23 PM
