It depends on where you put the Mad Celestials in comparison to their 616 counterparts , in terms of power alone . I think they are equal(based on their feats) , so I put Franklin as being somewhat above an average 616-Celestial(in terms of overall power) .
I can live with that.
average/somewhat above average ... it's not an exact science so, yeah I'll concede and agree that he might indeed be somewhat above average.
Though, the overall point would still be that he's not beating Celestials like Tiamut, unless there's definite evidence of him exceeding the average Celestial by a good margin.
Funny thing is, AF and Galactus did about equally as well against the Mad Celestials, yet for some reason I feel that Galactus has been seriously crippled over the last few years.
Agreed. People get stuck on this notion that Franklin=a Celestial in terms of power, which isn't necessarily the case. Granted it was stated that the Celestials "felt" Franklin was on par with themselves as a child--but that certainly doesn't mean his power is capped at Celestial-level.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Jul 17th, 2012 at 08:01 PM
I don't remember the exact quote, but wasn't it said that he had the potential to reach their levels of power. Wasn't that the hole point of forcing him to destroy the pocket universe, teach him, mould him, help him to learn to think of the consequences of using such power.
It seemed to me that they were pretty much trying to parent him, knowing that he would end up like one of them. No mention of being anything more than that though.
Like on True Blood... with vampire Tara and her 'mum'.
Well, given their place in the scheme of things, shouldn't we take that as more or less definitive, until such time that AF busts a few 616 Celestials or something?
One thing that I never understood though is that "blue ball" which contained the HR-verse was eventually given to Eternity by Dr. Strange , which Eternity decided to contain within his own form .
Yet we are later shown that Ashema preserved that reality within her own body .
So what , or better still , who is it ? Eternity ? Or Ashema ?
The thing is that adult Franklin has already reached his supposed full potential , so by default he is , at the very least as strong as a 616-Celestial , and based on his feats in #604 , he is slightly above them individually , and based on #582 , he is considerably above them(and possibly even in the same league as high-tier Celestials like Arishem and pre-Ascension Tiamut) .
However , Gaiman's take seems to suggest that they are the creations of the Fulcrum aka Jack Kirby/TOAA himself . Marvel should really just get their sh!t together and leave their origin unexplained , just the way they were intended to be when Jack Kirby first conceptualized them .
Btw, who are the IW ? Infinity Watch ? And when did the Celestials job to them ?
I think that this scan seems to imply that Franklin > both Ashema AND Tiamut(individually) : (please log in to view the image)
What's telling is that Tiamut is also referred as "the strongest of the host" in the very same panels .
I tended to ignore the jobbing to FF stuff, as that's just bog-standard PIS.
It's the stupidity of him not simply wiping Asgard (and Odin) out of existence with a simple glance kind of thing that is pathetic.
To even allow himself to be hit by Odin, to just stand there and do nothing when the Chaos King crap went down, to be a mere piece in M.o.D. and Clyde's battle...