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What comes next
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Greatest I am
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Re: What comes next

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Damborgson
I am someone who believes that this life will serve our next state. That after out death, we won't simply stop existing. More specifically, since energy cannot be destroyed we'll simply pass into another existence, very possibly influenced by the negative or positive energy we build up during our time here. I've got plenty of other stuff that could go into it, but those are as near to certainties as anything for me now.

Anyway, I'm curious what others might think, what you all believe happens after we pass. My view is no more valid than anyone elses' so leave a post in what you believe.


We have the same curious mind set.

Look at your next home my friend. It may looks a lot like that clip of the earths magnetic field. Now let's not forget that this is all speculation, but if I am correct, that is the home of our/a cosmic consciousness. What you call what will serve our next state.

http://vimeo.com/26318064

Science is always 20 years behind me but they are catching up.

Regards
DL

Old Post Dec 18th, 2013 02:21 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Supra
When you die you Go to heaven if you believed in his son Jesus.

If you did not..God will judge you on judgement day and you will be judged by Justice Iteself on what your fate will be for all eternity..its really that simple.


It, "Justice Iteself", cannot judge. It is not qualified. It is not human.

Get a him or a her judge and then you have a real judge that can be questioned.

Think of secular law and the Latin, mens rea, and you will get the idea as to why it must be a human judge.

Regards
DL

Old Post Dec 18th, 2013 02:27 AM
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Damborgson
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
No, it's one way existence can be meaningful. Just because you can't perceive meaning outside of this doesn't mean that others can't.

This also isn't evidence or logic/reason to believe in the existence of a soul. That you can't perceive meaning outside of a soul's existence means nothing. It's hope; blind faith. It's an emotional, perhaps psychological reason to believe, but not an empirical or rational reason.



The potential meaninglessness of life is not contingent upon an afterlife. Again, this is a narrow view of existence in which only one form of "meaning" is accepted.

But what you're talking about is again hope. Hope that there is more. But it's not a reason to believe that there is more.

It surprises some when I tell them I hope there's an afterlife too. I hope I'm wrong. Of course, it could be one of an infinite number of terrible afterlives as well, but I'd take my chances. But I also hope I become rich tomorrow. That alone isn't sufficient to justify a belief that I'll become rich tomorrow. I hope Mjolnir falls to Earth in my yard and I become the Asgardian protector of Earth. But - the fact that I'm probably not Worthy aside - I think we can agree it's not going to happen. But that's the same hope in the unjustified divine; it's just less socially accepted.



"Affect the energy" is meaningless to me. How does an action affect a karmic energy? What is karma in the first place? Not in a textbook sense, but can you actually point to is existence in the world?

Basically, what I'm getting at is, how does the universe operate in a way that cannot simply be described by deterministic physics. My contention is that this alone is sufficient to describe our actions.



In Scripture, probably not. But talk to a priest, ask him where the souls of insulated African tribes are headed. Or even well-meaning individuals who are exposed to Christ but don't accept Him. Chances are, his answer will be "Heaven."



thumb up Nice finds.



How could we possibly know that?



"Recognized by God himself..." seems like a problematic train of thought to me. How is it recognized? Through the Bible? It's circular reasoning.

"Why is the Bible divinely inspired?"
"Because the Bible says so."

Am I not grasping your meaning here?

________________

As it comes down to with many religious topics, it's the difference between possible and plausible. Lots of ideas - including religious ones - are possible. And from a subjective experience, which is all we have, we can't deny any possibility in an absolute sense. But "plausible" is a much tougher sell, one that nearly any justification for a soul falls short of imo.

Nice chatting though Damborg. I don't see you 'round this forum too often. Hope I'm not coming on too strong. wink


Hey Digi smile Sorry its been so long. Life's been up and down and sideways all the same, barely had time to be on the VS forum at all.

anywho, here goes:

You're more than free to back up the meaning behind something that has no impact whatsoever. This is the place for it. My ability to find meaning however, can't be properly judged off simple posts in this thread smile

It's up to you to believe it or not dude. If I know anything in life, it's that no one is necessarily right. Some just seem to be more so than others. I'm hardly putting this out as the end all be all explanation for eternity. To me, it's utterly ridiculous to think we disappear when we die completely as, even at our most base form, atoms, we are energy. The soul as its often described, can be considered the energy we return to as when we die. The soul's been the object of obsession for humanity for as long as we've been on Earth. Yet it's not scientific tests that can call out to the supernatural, asking for rational evidence of something that goes beyond the norm we're used to, is a rather...interesting request.

Looking beyond this existence...is a narrow form of existence? But the belief that we turn to dust and that's that is open minded?

Well that's the thing. My belief isn't based on faith. It's what I believe in sure, but my faith in it is hardly relevant, nor is my hope relevant. So the scenarios you put out, being rich and getting Mjolnir, are just hope. My belief is apart from that. It's not my hope that shapes the workings of the afterlife, it's just how it was intended to be by a being far greater than you or me or anyone else. *shrug*

I don't see where the surprise comes from. You're just a man, one who like me, probably has the hope that we will continue after this life. It just doesn't make sense to you is all. That's something you'll have to figure out on your own, or not since belief doesn't have much to do with it in my opinion.

It's affected by the negative and positive actions we do in this life. Energy, or our soul, is filled with what we put in it. Negative actions don't lead to anything good, but can be balanced out through good, just like the universe always seeks to balance itself, so do we.

Asking for firm evidence of karmic existence though is like me asking you to please confirm that we cease to exist after death. It's beyond our mortal selves.

What priests have you talked to? That's a rather moderate and friendly answer. I was told I was going to hell since I was in 4th grade. smile That I needed saving just like the murderers, rapists and other scum of the world. Because we are essentially bad people in the Christian belief, that are saved only through faith. This is fact for that religion.

Thanks, it had been a while since I'd searched bible verses.

We can't. And no, either you're not grasping it or I did a poor job of describing what I meant. The point was to describe how poor that line of reasoning was, not that I believe it.

---------------------------

No, no, of course not big grin we're just expressing our thoughts. Wouldn't be any fun if we were pushovers about it ha.


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Old Post Dec 28th, 2013 01:19 AM
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Damborgson
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Re: Re: What comes next

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Greatest I am
We have the same curious mind set.

Look at your next home my friend. It may looks a lot like that clip of the earths magnetic field. Now let's not forget that this is all speculation, but if I am correct, that is the home of our/a cosmic consciousness. What you call what will serve our next state.

http://vimeo.com/26318064

Science is always 20 years behind me but they are catching up.

Regards
DL


Interesting stuff. Guess we'll have to wait and see big grin


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Old Post Dec 28th, 2013 01:20 AM
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Shakyamunison
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Extraordinary claims extraordinary proof.


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Old Post Dec 30th, 2013 04:44 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Extraordinary claims extraordinary proof.


Absolutely. That is why Gnostic Christians will view all Gods and what is said of them as myth, unless pushed to belief by apotheosis.

Faith without facts is for fools.

Only then will we say we hold a belief thanks to the extra ordinary information given by what most call God.

Regards
DL

Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 05:13 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Damborgson
Anyway, I'm curious what others might think, what you all believe happens after we pass.
The drop returns to the ocean, though it never really left.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 06:36 PM
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KillaKassara
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Re: What comes next

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Damborgson
I am someone who believes that this life will serve our next state. That after out death, we won't simply stop existing. More specifically, since energy cannot be destroyed we'll simply pass into another existence, very possibly influenced by the negative or positive energy we build up during our time here. I've got plenty of other stuff that could go into it, but those are as near to certainties as anything for me now.

Anyway, I'm curious what others might think, what you all believe happens after we pass. My view is no more valid than anyone elses' so leave a post in what you believe.
Well I can only speak for myself because I only know the negative forces that have suppressed my natural purpose.

After I die I will awaken 10 years younger at a paramount point in my life, where my decisions can allow me to succeed, whereas the schemers fail - as opposed to what will happen in this life if I die the way it's most likely I'm going to die, where everybody loses despite unfathomable karma in my favor to stack against the odds that have somehow been axed by thousands of years of unnatural machinations.

Perhaps I'll succeed in this life, and they'll not have intervened in the next, if I can make anything happen. It depends on what's inside me, on who I am. When discover myself, I will know whether or not I have what it takes to make anything possible. Whether or not that karma is as strong as I believe it is.

Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 06:38 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
The drop returns to the ocean.


thumb up I love the wave analogy. A wave is on the surface of the ocean. It exists for a time then it is gone. Where did it go? Back into the ocean where it has always been.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 06:39 PM
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Stealth Moose
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BUT I AM A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE. I DON'T WANNA GO BACK TO THE COLLECTIVIST COMMIE HELL THAT YOU IMPLY.

Also, valkyries. Just saying.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 08:22 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
BUT I AM A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE. I DON'T WANNA GO BACK TO THE COLLECTIVIST COMMIE HELL THAT YOU IMPLY.

Also, valkyries. Just saying.


Whiner! stick out tongue


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 08:28 PM
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Greatest I am
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
BUT I AM A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE. I DON'T WANNA GO BACK TO THE COLLECTIVIST COMMIE HELL THAT YOU IMPLY.

Also, valkyries. Just saying.


You have heard of the Borg Collective of Star Trek?

The cosmic consciousness or Godhead is like that and you keep your individuality while enjoying the benefits of the collective.

Regards
DL

Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 09:16 PM
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Stealth Moose
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But how can it be harmonious? Also, how can we claim knowledge of anything we have not empirically verified?


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 09:17 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Greatest I am
You have heard of the Borg Collective of Star Trek?

The cosmic consciousness or Godhead is like that and you keep your individuality while enjoying the benefits of the collective.

Regards
DL


Please explain to me how that works. For example, the Borg are connected with a type of carrier wave. It is fiction, but there is an attempt to make it real world. How do you make your idea "real world"?


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 09:54 PM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please explain to me how that works. For example, the Borg are connected with a type of carrier wave. It is fiction, but there is an attempt to make it real world. How do you make your idea "real world"?
Stop asking perfectly logical questions.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 10:16 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But how can it be harmonious?

S M

I guess that evolution, since it always creates for the best possible end, must somehow create the conditions where life likes to be alive otherwise it would tend to end itself.


Also, how can we claim knowledge of anything we have not empirically verified?


We can claim knowledge. We just also have to admit that we have no proof for others. That is a part of the nature of apotheosis.

S M

I never push people to believe in my apotheosis and only offer it as an anecdotal rendering.

If they have a spiritual itch pushing them, they will not need my poor words to eventually get their reward. Or curse depending on my day.

Regards
DL

Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 10:16 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Stop asking perfectly logical questions.


embarrasment Sorry!


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 10:18 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please explain to me how that works. For example, the Borg are connected with a type of carrier wave. It is fiction, but there is an attempt to make it real world. How do you make your idea "real world"?


The way I see things is that thoughts and our consciousness are made up of sub atomic particles. They are their own carrier wave, so to speak, and meld as they choose to within the Godhead. This theory of thoughts creating paticles came from Noetic Sciences. I offer this as a possibility and speculation only.

Regards
DL

Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 10:21 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Greatest I am
The way I see things is that thoughts and our consciousness are made up of sub atomic particles. They are their own carrier wave, so to speak, and meld as they choose to within the Godhead. This theory of thoughts creating paticles came from Noetic Sciences. I offer this as a possibility and speculation only.

Regards
DL


So, are the thoughts of other animals included? Like is my cat part of this consciousness?


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 10:23 PM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Greatest I am
The way I see things is that thoughts and our consciousness are made up of sub atomic particles. They are their own carrier wave, so to speak, and meld as they choose to within the Godhead. This theory of thoughts creating paticles came from Noetic Sciences. I offer this as a possibility and speculation only.

Regards
DL
In this theory, where do the rest of the other, non-thinking lifeforms come in to play? And are these subatomic particles found throughout the universe--regardless of the presence of consciousness--or are they of a type that's only created when thought and consciousnesses occurs? And if it's the latter, what is the impetus for thought and consciousnesses?


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2013 10:31 PM
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