There's a difference between being on par with Thor, a high end one at that, and just being herald level.
Not to mention he survived brutal beatings alongside the adult version and was actually keeping up for parts of the fight even without Mjolnir.
This isn't even a reply. Are you denying that Celestial tech, much less legit Celestial armor, has greatly augmented stats like physical strength in the past?
Yes or no? If yes, then what's the problem? If no, then I'd like to point you to Uncanny X-Force v1 and v2 by Rick Remender, the writer of that fight.
Withstanding the beating that he did from Superboy Prime WAS a pretty decent feat, he just lost. Not to mention Young Thor kept bouncing back.
He turned into a giant squid or whatever later on. Why is this relevant when the same version that faced Diana was the one from Krypton? Are you saying that he got more powerful in between?
That's some mighty big speculation from someone who just made the argument Apocalypse in Celestial Armor can't be stronger then usual without some specific hard evidence.
Blocking a punch from Doomsday wouldn't break both of Thor's arms. Are you nuts? I just posted scans of Young Thor taking hits from the Odin Destroyer under Fraction.
Yup. Lightning bolt to the dome won his first fight as a matter of fact.
Says the guy who posted this:
"when about hundred blows from Faora couldn't."
No, but your entire basis for Thor "getting broken in half" by Diana is a single less then stellar showing. Against an Apocalypse who was rocking CELESTIAL ARMOR. It's retarded and the definition of lowballing.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Apr 19th, 2014 at 04:25 AM
Dude's a beast. I don't know why people think that just because he's not on par with adult Thor, he's less then Wonder Woman, much less the DCnU incarnation.
I'd just like to point out that this has not hindered him in combat and even despite his attitude, he knows when to fight smart and retreat such as his fight with Apocalypse.
But fair enough. This is a reason I can understand.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Apr 19th, 2014 at 04:29 AM
Here's a question how would this version of Diana fair against apocalypse? Because young Thor got wrecked in his first encounter with him. Would she perform slightly better? I think she would.
Is it? Thorwasn't playing at any other level than high herald in Gorr arc. You're confusing high end feats with high end tier rankings.
Good for him. He still performed below an actual herald.
I don't recall Apoc's armor specified to do so.
What's there regarding Apoc's armor?
So did Sodam Yat untill stabbed by lead pipes.
The writer has stated that he's going through metamorphosis and would become more powerful. Take it as you can.
Do I have to post the interview here too? Without any on panel description of DD's powers, its the only source of information yet.
Under Soule she's nearly as strong as Superman, so yes it would. Or are you saying young thor is as strong as superman?
Non-canon.
A yonger and less powerful Gorr.
I never said she did well against Faora because of hundred punches.
And him being less than the adult Thor. But I get it, young Thor is high herald and thor is trans, right? But thanks for taking my statement literally.
Rankings are based on averages. In that specific arc, current Thor was written at a high end level and was doing almost as well as All-Father Thor against Gorr and young Thor wasn't too far behind.
You need evidence that Apocalypse's Celestial Armor amplifies his power? Wtf, seriously? This type of shit is why you're an idiot.
Also here you go: (please log in to view the image)
Under the SAME writer even. And that's not even the one handed to a being when they become an Apocalypse.
So are you ready to recognize the obvious, that Apocalypse's armor amplifies his power?
......What? I'm going to assume that's some kind of language barrier because I don't know why Sodam Yat having a weakness to lead makes Thor taking a beating from Gorr less impressive.
And again, the Doomsday that fought Diana was the same as the one on Krypton.
What kind of bullshit is this? Now we get to specify different takes such as Remender's Young Thor and Aaron's? Although no version of Young Thor that I can think of would have his arms broken by BLOCKING a punch from a Herald level being.
Not to mention this is Thor/Wonder Woman.
Based on?
Who was still ending entire pantheons.
That was your reasoning for why she'd beat Young Thor and yet you say that taking a beating is "not a feat"?
Are you saying that DCnU Diana is on par with adult Thor conclusively and that anyone less then him is automatically below DCnU Diana?
Like I've told you before, I don't know how stuff works in that rape rampant shit hole you live in, but here in the civilized world, words matter and carry weight.
I thought that was better. Too bad Epicurus is banned.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Apr 19th, 2014 at 05:21 AM
A depleted King Thor you mean? Because when Thor-force returned KT damn near oneshotted Gorr.
No need to be hostile.
That's what I'm talking about. So apoc was amped. Now was that so hard?
OK, I concede that point.
Yup. How strong was apoc at normal level though? Thor level? Gorr level?
Because taking a beating doesn't makes you impressive?
No need to be an A-hole. We know nothing about DD at this point. I'm not even saying its going to be true, but at this point its our only source of information. When the actual comic would come out, this would be meaningless obviously.
You're seriously an a-hole.
Why yes, of course.
So?
Brevoort's words.
Golly gee, he's as powerful as Lobo.
No, my reasoning for her beating had nothing to do with that. Its based on hierarchy.
No, but she isn't far off in strength either.
Like the last time you said you didn't even posted in a thread and then flipped over?
That "depleted" King Thor is way more powerful then Wonder Woman so I don't see your point. He rocked the shit out of Gorr but he was relatively fine and later on was even shielding the blasts.
No, but that the conclusion Apocalypse was amped should be something you reach by yourself. It's not even a leap, anyone with a passing knowledge KNOWS Celestial tech augments powers massively.
Not Gorr level but above Herald level I'd say.
I'm being an assho*le because I called you out on your obvious bullshit and flip flopping?
According to you, interviews DO NOT COUNT full stop. There is no on panel evidence to support Diana's Doomsday being stronger. We DO see him evolve and grow but that is a great deal after. For starters, prove that the interview is referring to the one Diana encountered, and not to the one in the arctic right now?
So stop trying to force in a Superman/Young Thor comparison. It's obvious and we ALL know where this is going. And almost immediately you'll start referencing him benching a planet or whatever under completely different writers instead of focusing on the writer of Superman/Wonder Woman which you specified.
That interview does not prove that the Matt Fraction's trilogy is non-canon. It is referring to a completely different story. Try again.
Why is Lobo relevant in this discussion? Are you incapable of replying with anything but red herrings and lowballing?
Young Thor is EASILY competitive in both environmental and combat feats and your reasoning for Diana winning is, hierarchy? The two aren't even in the same Universe. This answer does not explain you saying beatings are not a feat and then referencing Faora.
If she isn't as strong as current Thor and below him in power/durability etc. then why would young Thor being below modern Thor be grounds for Diana winning?
Yea, that's definitely the same thing. If you want, we can start a different thread with a poll to a link to both discussions and see what people decide .
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Apr 19th, 2014 at 05:59 AM
Based on his encounter with Superman and everything else, Herald level is a perfect fit for Doomsday and yet he broke Diana's arms when she tried to BLOCK a PUNCH. Whatever his durability, Young Thor bounced back from ALL of Apocalypse's attacks and we've established that he is amped.
Gorr was weaker when Young Thor fought him but was clearly already ridiculously powerful and beyond someone like the First Born. And Diana fared far worse against the latter then Young Thor did against the former.
Simply put, trying to lowball Young Thor to give Diana the win is a losing strategy.
I don't have an axe to grind either way and I don't know jack about dcnu ww to really give an opinion but I gotta say those were some great scans posted by rage. Young Thor is pretty beastly.
__________________ Listen, boy. Have you ever had your scrotum pulled off by a mountain goat and seen him sell it on eBay a day later?
I know that. But King Thor was depicted as Trans, Adult Thor as high herald and Young Thor as somewhat mid or low herald level. Its all about hierarchies.
I know. Its still pretty ambiguous time to time.
Why? We saw Gorr beating on him and he wasn't in danger of being killed.
No, you're being an a-hole because you're an a-hole.
Sure. It still contains information about how Doomsday is supposed to work. if you think I'm going to use that in battles, you're wrong. Of course there isn't. Doomsday doesn't appeared too much either. What? I'm just saying its still too early to say anything about what level Doomsday is at.
I've never used planet benching or whatever to deem character levels.
No, I bowed out of a respect thread because you were being your usual charming self.
Of course it does. Not to mention, it was stated to be the continuation of Thor: Ages of Thunder, which is strictly non canon.
In reference to a dumb argument from a different thread. No need to panic.
At least you admit he's herald level now. And King Thor, even weakened as he is, is legit Skyfather as confirmed by his fight with Galactus. And Young Thor was keeping up with the other two Thor's, confirming his status as a herald.
So you think he's above Gorr level? Earlier you were arguing that he wasn't even above Herald level. I don't really care where he ranks as long as you admit giving Diana the win because Young Thor didn't fair too well against a clearly amped Apocalypse is retarded. Especially so since Diana has her share of less then stellar showings.
How about you post this interview with a link?
Well, based on the fact that he hit Superman and it clearly rocked him but he bounced back and the Kryptonian exo-skeletons giving him a good fight, putting this Doomsday in the tier he usually resides in would be a safe bet.
I mean sure, you can hope and pray that he's revealed to be a Skyfather or something, but based on the available evidence, the herald tier is a safe bet. And Wonder Woman still broke her arms trying to block a punch.
Anyways, we've gone completely off topic. My initial point in Doomsday was that arguing for Diana based on one less then stellar showing for Young Thor is retarded as her record is far from spotless. I think you understand as much at this point however. At least, I sincerely hope you do.
Like I said, the post from Breevort you're referencing refers to a completely different one-shot that came out like 3 years earlier. They are literally completely different titles.
I just skimmed that interview but exactly what part of it proves that it is non-canon? Here's a part of it: "We've seen how and why Odin cast Thor out in THOR v1 #159," he remembers. "This cycle of specials honors that, and enhances it. The story, across all three [specials], is [about] why did Odin cast Thor out of Asgard, and force him to become mortal? What in the world could Odin's son have done to deserve that? In a way, it's a prequel to Marvel's own Asgard cycle, I guess."
From this interview, the titles seem to be treated as DIRECT prequels to the reasons for Thor's banishment by examining previous Ragnarok cycles Thanks for proving my point?
Actually, Lobo was killing named characters like Odin etc. I believe BUT referencing that type of story in comparison to the God of Thunder series is about as relevant as a strip from the funny pages. Not to mention it's completely irrelevant as evidence as that Lobo has no interaction with DCnU Wonder Woman.
Hierarchy isn't a reason for winning nor is it any form of evidence. If you want to argue Wonder Woman would win based on a gut feeling, that is fine but please do not pass off your bias as some sort of valid reason or conclusive evidence.
Young Thor isn't competitive with DCnU Diana in feats? That's just flat out untrue based on what we've seen. No, but getting beat up by Gorr and remaining standing is.
No, he really isn't.
You know, I gave Young Thor the clear win in only the second scenario in this thread.
And yes, modern Thor beats DCnU Diana like 7-9/10. That doesn't mean he one-shots her or anything but with the gap between their stats being even GREATER then POST CRISIS and the lasso being downgraded, she has very few, if any, tools in her arsenal that can counter Mjolnir and allow her to get a win.
Not that my opinion on this match up has any relevance in this thread regarding Young Thor and DCnU Wonder Woman.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Apr 19th, 2014 at 12:36 PM
Eh, if I was you I'd be reporting it off. But fortunately, I'm not.
That was never in question. Against an alternate Galactus? After Thor Force has been awakened? No shit bro. Maybe low or mid herald.
I don't know. You're the one who is hyping every character who beat up on Thor. And I didn't see why beating up a low or mid herald is such a big deal. Superman was once stated to be capable of killing wonder woman with three BLOCKED punches and she is a legit mid herald class 100. Did that make him above herald level? Eh, that is one of many reasons. Compared to genuine top tiers? List them.
And that is above herald level. You don't style on Superman, break a top tier's hands with a blocked punch and be a herald. You know what, when did a high herald broke anyone's arms with just a blocked punch?
This circular reasoning is pretty funny. I will give you that. Apoc nearly kills Thor with three hits although Thor bounces back, he is outright above herald level. Doomsday break wonder woman's arms, he is still herald. Gotta love this line of logic.
Against top tiers? Who actually beat diana in the top tier bracket? I do. You're still wrong.
And they could be 10 years apart and it wouldn't matter. It references a non canon story, contradicts specified canon and has never been mentioned in a canon comic.
Reading a special part of the interview? Bad rage.
As usual the point went over your head. Read again what I said.
Wow? So Thor would win against, say Spectre? This is the kind of shit which make comic debates so tedious. My bias? Hahahaha.
In combat feats? No, he isn't. Eh, it was akin to Superboy vs Superboy Prime. You wouldn't say Superboy beats Black Adam for standing up to SBP better, do you?
He is.
Then you're even more wrong.
Wow. You've sunk even lower than I imagined. Thor's standing against other top tiers hasn't changed because of a single arc under a single writer. If anything his stock has never been lower outside his own comic. And Diana's stock has never been higher, she is a genuine threat to top tiers now. And there wasn't much gap between Thor and post crisis wonder woman to begin with.
Fine, she cuts his head off with that atom splitting sword of hers.
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Last edited by abhilegend on Apr 19th, 2014 at 01:47 PM
Alternate? Are you implying it's non-canon or something? It happens in the future, but as far as the comics are concerned, it's all canon.
The Thor Force had already awakened when he fought Gorr. If you acknowledge he's a Skyfather with the Thor Force, then why did you call him a Trans a post back? You even tried to lowball Gorr but saying the Thor Force was depleted. You are so terrible at debating, it's actually funny.
No, hyping would be mentioning that Apocalypse -in even less powerful armor- was beating up the Inhumans and a collection of X-men in a story directly referenced by Remender in X-Force so to give us an idea of where he probably considers him. All I'm doing is pointing out that Apocalypse is naturally a Herald level character and was almost certainly above his regular portrayed level so trying to lowball Young Thor through him is ridiculous.
Superman, especially Post-Crisis Superman has absolutely no relevance here. Skip the red herrings and STICK ON TOPIC. No one cares about Superman, this isn't a thread about Superman. Sure, Superman was above Herald level. He was probably above Galactus!
Are you satisfied? Please stop bringing him up. And beating up Young Thor like he did IS a big deal. We have seen even this specific version of Young Thor display ridiculous durability. And again, Apocalypse was amped and wearing original Celestial armor so it is fairly
Greg Pak specifically references Doomsday's metamorphosis in the arctic which happens like 7 issues later after his encounter with Diana. The version that Diana encountered did not yet display any form of evolution or power growth.
Knocking Superman off his feet with a sucker punch is not above Top Tier. So wait, Young Thor bounced back now? I thought he was nearly killed in 3 punches.
Fine, Doomsday is above Top Tier. Make him Skyfather, I don't give a shit. I don't particularly care where he ranks (Although his fight on Krypton is pretty clear) as long as you stop trying to lowball Thor.
The story Breevort references is Rage of Thor. That story is 3 years apart and not INCLUDED in Matt Fraction's trilogy Man of War or whatever. That shit isn't even written by Matt Fraction.
Contradicting canon does not make a comic non-canon. At best, it makes it a retcon. I've already mentioned to you multiple times how Matt Fraction treats the history of the God's. He even specifically mentions how he is exploring Thor's downfall through multiple Ragnarok cycles by adding to the events in Thor #159.
He said you don't have to worry about continuity. How does this prove that it is non-canon? The same has been said about MANY specials over the years.
I get what you're saying. You want to lowball Gorr and argue that he isn't impressive or something when it's been made perfectly clear he is and then some. And even as far back as when he fought Young Thor, he was already at a level where he'd rape all of the Olympians in Diana's Universe.
If the only evidence you have of Spectre beating Thor is hierarchy, then you do not know anything about comics. And I don't even know how you think the difference between Thor/Spectre is even remotely comparable to Diana/Thor.
We've seen Young Thor take on Odin, Gorr, Surtur, Ulik etc.
No because all Prime did was knock Black Adam away who was relatively unharmed. And again, just because it is inconvenient, that does not mean you get to ignore Young Thor fairing far better against Gorr then Diana against First Born.
I don't consider DCnU Diana to be on par with her Post-Crisis counterpart, much less Thor. And again, in comparison to Thor, she has very little tools to defeat him.
She could try but Young Thor has taken a hit from his axe, blows from the Odinsword etc. Not to mention both of them are armed so he can his use his own weapons to defend himself.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Apr 20th, 2014 at 12:08 AM
KMC Community Forums
Apr 18th, 2014 04:27 AM
Too bad Epicurus is banned.
I don't really care where he ranks as long as you admit giving Diana the win because Young Thor didn't fair too well against a clearly amped Apocalypse is retarded. Especially so since Diana has her share of less then stellar showings. 
