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Originally posted by ILS
Now that Sinious has calmed down and Neph's outlandish claims have been settled, lets get back to the topic of discussion.

Given that Maul has:

-More strength than Scourge, both physically and in the Force by a sizeable degree.
-More extensive combat training from a wider variety of, and simply better, sources, and a higher dedication to training (comparing Scourge's training regime of practising every few days to Maul's hundreds of thousands of sequences every single day). Also much, much harsher training.
-Better, and more easily definable combat and Force feats.
-Superior accolades.

I would say that he has this in the bag. Scourge is comparable in some respects and will certainly give Maul a run for his money, but he's ultimately outmatched in all the areas that are worth mentioning.

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Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, I don't know why you're getting mad at me. All I'm saying is that it's an exciting time for a lot of posters, including yourself. If ILS knows he can bait you successfully, he's just going to continue to do it.

Don't squander your happiness by letting him win.

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Originally posted by Sinious
I'm curious to see how your debate with Neph will go on so I don't want to exhaust you tbh.

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Originally posted by ILS
Mm.. I dunno. "Scheming mastermind" doesn't sound like a dumbass to me.

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Originally posted by ILS
Excuses you failed to address in any way, shape or form.

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Originally posted by ILS
Uh huh.. and I suppose Maul casually dictating the location of a duel with one of the most skilled swordsmen the Jedi have produced in 25,000 years and his apprentice at the same time just screams dumbass, right? How about throwing away ones lightsaber strategies and replacing them with brand new ones within the first clash of a blade? Idiot, right? How about taunting one of the most skilled defensive fighters in the mythos into fighting like a crazed animal and then kicking his ass to the curb? Clearly the mindset of a barbarian.

Let's not even get into the time Maul took a village of spear-wielding primitives and trained them into a force capable of slaughtering an army of armed soldiers within a couple of days. Or that other time Maul orchestrated the capture of the Separatist's political and military leaders using nothing other than the criminal underworld and a force of Mandalorians Maul spent all of maybe a few months in ranks with.

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Originally posted by ILS
try reading the material before slabbering ignorance, bro. Maul was slaughtering Bondara and came within a strike of killing him before he stabbed the speeder (in fact, it was stated Maul's plan from the beginning was to tactically drive Bondara to the edge so he wouldn't have anywhere left to run - more idiotic tactics, no doubt). Darsha only lasted as long as she did because she fell into a state of extreme focus and played keep-away as best she could, not because of any tactical blunder on Maul's part.

And again, try considering the fact that all of these characters and situations mean jack shit in relation to Scourge, whose tactical track record up until this point is an accolade from you saying he's "cold and analytical"... yeah, that's nice.

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Originally posted by ILS
Was she back up and fighting afterwards?

Also, according to both TPM and TCW Maul can as well. If anything the clone fight with Vader is an inconsistency.

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Originally posted by SunRazer
Slabber is a word. It means dribbling at the mouth. Same thing as slaver, basically.

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If Scourge could stalemate the Hero, he's very comparable to Maul, especially since he'd be in fact greater than he was against the Hero since he'd be able to feed off of Maul's rage.

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Scourge is getting sold short. He was already a saber prodigy in Revan in the academy who scared the shit out of his instructors and a high-end master of multiple forms since he was a Juyo master.

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He also outran automated speederfire, which was programmed to target and fire at incredible speeds and undoubtedly at highly fast targets

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”His pursuers were Meltch Krakko and the two Rodian cadets, Hubnutz and Fretch, and the goal of their exercise was to capture Maul. Krakko and the Rodians were wearing mimetic suits, energy-powered cloaks that allowed tor almost perfect camouflage in any environment. Since Krakko’s return to Orsis Academy two years ago, he had not only taken a special interest in training the Rodians in tracking and sharpshooting, but also in tormenting the fifteen-year-old Zabrak.
[...]
Maul approached the rim of the mountain's valley, where glacial water and wind had carved a maze of tall, rocky formations. He darted into the labyrinth, never pausing to catch his breath. More blaster bolts zinged past his body. If his pursuers' blasters had been set to kill, he would have been dead already, a fact that infuriated him. But because Sidious and Trezza had forbidden him from revealing his Force powers to Orsis faculty and cadets, he was obliged to let his pursuers shoot him occasionally. If he'd dodged every blaster bolt, they would have had ample reason to suspect he was a Force user.”

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”The Gamorreans opened fire from either side, but Vosa moved faster than they could shoot, faster even than the naked eye could see. Adapting the Form One style of Soresu, she whirled her lightsabers in front of her, their blades absorbing and deflecting the blasts easily from all sides.”

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”In his mind, the duel was all but over— his opponent was now dragging out the inevitable moment of defeat in a series of small humiliations. By turning to such diversionary tactics, Vosa had all but admitted that she was no match for the erratic staccato blows that he was delivering, seemingly from everywhere, all at once.”

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and move faster than patrol droids could react.

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”They had been programmed with the skills of a dozen martial arts masters, and their reflexes were calibrated just a hair faster than human optimum.”
[...]
“Rapier lunged at full extension, its metal knee joint bent almost to the floor. The needle point flickered toward Maul’s heart, almost too fast to see.
The dark side blossomed in Darth Maul, the power of it resonating in him like black lightning, augmenting his years of training, guiding his reactions. Time seemed to slow, to stretch.
It would have been easy to chop the blade itself in half, as few metals could resist the frictionless edge of a lightsaber. But there was no challenge to that. Maul spun toward the point, twisted around the outside, and snapped his hands horizontally at chest level. The left blade of the lightsaber sheared through Rapier’s sword arm. Both arm and weapon clattered to the floor.”

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Add into that, that Nyriss and Revan both state that Scourge still possesses immense untapped potential and Scourge would be significantly greater as of Swtor. And his saber skills would be similarly immensely improved over the 300 year period he was the Emperor's assassin.

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If Scourge was already a master of 3 lightsaber forms in Revan in his, what, dozen years of training, then he'd be immeasurably improved by the game. He'd have plenty of time to polish his saber skills to perfection and obviously has the inclination. And the opportunity to test them with his over 1000 Sith kills and 100 Jedi kills.

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Scourge has the experience to analyse and pick apart Mauls technique.

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Considering Maul's kind of a dumb ass who is constantly screwing up with his arrogance and personal issues, Scourge obviously has the tactical edge.

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Originally posted by ILS
-More extensive combat training from a wider variety of, and simply better, sources, and a higher dedication to training (comparing Scourge's training regime of practising every few days to Maul's hundreds of thousands of sequences every single day). Also much, much harsher training.

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Furthermore, TCW Maul was a veritable wellspring of anger. He was snarling like a ****ing lunatic at points. With Scourge's unique ability to draw off the rage of his opponent's, he'd receive a considerable boost from someone like Maul. Add into that that Scourge is also an immensely powerful Force User in his own right and that he's receiving a biochemical amp and an amp from Vitiate and Scourge has a shitton of cards stacked in his favor.

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Scourge also has heavy armor and a shield generator.

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Even if Maul manages to get through Scourge's own immense power, I doubt his TK would actually do anything. He'd need to overcome Scourge's barrier and his shield generator and still TK Scourge hard enough to affect him through the armor.

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Bare in mind that even Malgus as of Deceived had armor capable of repelling direct lightsaber attacks and in Hope his armor survives the thermal deternator and Satele Kamehameha combo that defeats him. Scourge, as the Emperor's Wrath, would surely have the finest equipment he wanted.

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Obviously, these factors also help him in a lightsaber duel and are yet another advantage Scourge has over Maul.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
Before I start, just to clarify with your last post:
Scourge could train every 5 days and still have a half dozen times the training Maul does. Maul trained like that because he was still an apprentice, Scourge was a full Sith Lord and had shit to do. I'm sure that when he was an apprentice he spent most of his time training, just like anyone else. I also doubt Maul's training was much harsher considering the insane conditions of Korribans training.

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"When I complete my basic exercises, I power up my double-bladed lightsaber and practice maneuvers. My body is as strong as durasteel and as fluid as water. I shift from one position of attack to another. I fall on one knee and slash my lightsaber as I imagine cleaving my victim cleanly. I roll away and grip my lightsaber with both hands for a vertical sweep. I leap and twist and come down, leading with my left shoulder. I deliver a death blow and leap away, somersaulting in the air. I perform ten thousand slashes, lunges, attacks.

My lightsaber is no longer a separate weapon, but part of my arm. I move in the time it would take my opponent to blink. I move in the time he would take to raise his weapon. He would only see the space where I had been. He would feel the sudden shock of the blow that would knock him to the floor. I do these maneuvers a hundred times a day. I do them even though my body knows them intimately, even though I have not made a mistake or a misstep in years. I do them until the memory of the movement is part of the muscle itself. The goal of the Sith is to fight without thought."

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Originally posted by ILS
Actually, no: Maul was a full Sith Lord by the age of 15-16, and yet he still spent absurd amounts of time perfecting his craft with a blade.


--Episode I Journal: Darth Maul

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Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, no shit I gathered that from the Darth part. But he was still Sidious' apprentice and he had no duties other than training in between the missions Sidious sent him on.