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Location: The Darkest Corner of your Mind
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I don't hate on Vader though. He's probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite SW character after Dooku. I'm just not blinded by social attitudes towards him and feelings of OT nostalgia.
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Vader not fighting any Force users between RotS and ANH has been retconned, but that doesn't mean him being a pale shadow of himself has been as well. After all, he's still relatively equal with Ben Kenobi, who we know to be a pale shadow of his RotS self. And if ANH Vader's << RotS Kenobi, then I think we can deduce that he's still a pale shadow of Anakin as far as dueling goes.
Since we've already done this song and dance about a hundred times.
>Misinterpretation of quotes regarding Vader > Anakin.
>Shadow of former selves quote not applying to their overall combative capabilities.
>There being no evidence that Ben was Vader's equal.
Blah blah blah.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
I'm only talking about dueling, you ****ing donkey. I said that in my post. The only misinterpretation here is yours, and its the product of that conglomerate mass of biased ideas you get in your head whenever Anakin comes up. I could post you the evidence for Anakin > Vader in dueling and you wouldn't accept it.
Vader never once shows skill superiority over Ben. According to the Death Star rendition, he tires Obi-Wan out, but that's it. Other renditions have it being a stalemate. That dueling pack quote that Ant posted says that Vader only became the greatest duelist in the galaxy once Kenobi died. Fightsaber states that Vader can't break through Obi-Wan's defense until Obi-Wan yields. And so on. They're close enough that Ben is nowhere near a pale shadow of Vader. I'm willing to accept some leeway on the equality thing, but they're obviously very close. Enough so that my point stands - and I did say "relatively equal".
Certainly Vader still isn't anywhere close to RotS Obi-Wan as of ANH or else he'd beat Ben decisively. By his prime? Probably about equal in dueling.
Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 17th, 2017 at 01:02 AM
Making up for 10 years of pompous superiority by swearing in every other post I see.
I never suggested he did. However we can understand such a statement to be true simply because Vader's far more experienced then he was as Anakin, retaining all the knowledge of lightsaber combat he had prior to being placed in the suit and had kept his skills honed by fighting against enemy Force users and training droids having been confirmed to have been constantly improving his lightsaber skill. Ben on the other hand had been confirmed to have degraded as a duelist thus making it logical that he is Vader's inferior.
Yes, for the duration that Vader and Obi Wan fought neither Vader nor Obi Wan defeated each other. This is because, as I mentioned, Vader was fighting cautiously having remembered their last engagement. It is my belief that Vader would have defeated him had the engagement been prolonged but if he hadn't that would be solely because of Ben's growth in power given we know he degraded in every other area and Vader himself was more powerful and logically more skilled then he was as Anakin.
See this is where your argument falls apart. The basis for such a stance is that Anakin is somehow above Vader but since that's not the case we know Ben's growth in power was at least enough to allow him to contend with a superior opponent to Anakin which suggests overall superiority to his RotS incarnation as a lightsaber combatant despite a degradation in skill.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
Jan 16th, 2017 07:38 PM
