But Raynar is a lot stronger than Revan, so Revan's not part of the top five.
Yes, I would compare Revan to Yoda, Kyp, Jacen, and Kyle. POD pretty much built a legacy for Revan's knowledge and power, so Revan COULD be compared to those. Raynar Thul? Please.
Raynar sent DN Luke flying with a wave of his hand in The Swarm War . Revan wouldn't stand a chance against him.
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Last edited by Darth_Glentract on Jan 4th, 2007 at 12:07 AM
This is your argument? Wow. Kyp also sent Luke flying when Luke tested his potential, I guess Kyp>Luke. Yoda tossed Sidious across the room. Yoda>Sidious.. VERY compelling argument. Oh wait.
Kyp also sent Luke flying when Luke tested his potential, I guess Kyp>Luke.
Luke wasn't ready to fight Kyp, now was he? Luke didn't have his defenses up.
Yoda tossed Sidious across the room. Yoda>Sidious.. VERY compelling argument. Oh wait.
Yoda may not be better than Sidious, but at worst he's about equal to him as of ROTS. Thing is that anyone even close to Luke in power would OWN Revan.
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LOL Glentract, it was in the moment and Darth Sexy's arguments seemed superior to yours.
I wouldn't consider somebody Pushing someone to mean any sign of closeness. And it depends on the context. Were Luke and Raynar engaged in combat on a neutral arena and Raynar pulled a successful Wave or what was the scenario?
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No, because Luke was distracted and sucker punched by Lumiya. Raynar, however, managed to overpower him.
As for Mr. Thrul
A. That was not Raynar that was Unu and him combined hence
"Raynar Thul vanished with the Crash."
and
"Raynar Thul is no more. We are UnuThul."
He was still a Jedi though and he was still Raynar. He only thought he was different because he had brain damage. You seem to forget that Raynar was insane, so his quotes cannot be taken seriously.
B. After the crash the dude is no longer a Jedi so that makes him pretty void from the discussion
No, he was still a Jedi. That's why Luke called him the Order's responsibility.
C. He was drawing power from all the nests and the dark nest at that point, increasing his force abilities 10 fold.
Exactly. Where his strength came from doesn't matter because it was not incidental power. He could draw on that power whenever he wanted, where ever he wanted, so it counts in a fight.
D. He still got his ass beat by Luke once he got serious.
Are you saying Revan wouldn't get his ass beat too?
Were Luke and Raynar engaged in combat on a neutral arena and Raynar pulled a successful Wave or what was the scenario?
Like I said earlier, Raynar didn't sucker punch Luke, they were engaged in a fight.
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They were still engaged in a duel and again by that logic a droideka is a match for Revan since Luke AND Mara stuggled with one.
No, he wasn't.
"Raynar Thul vanished with the Crash." - LUKE SKYWALKER
He was no longer a Jedi. And thus cannot be included in these "who's the most powerful JEDI" debates.
Because of what he once was, Luke took pity on him big f*cking deal. And elt me ask you, Where is Raynar now? Is he on active duty with the Jedi? Is he in prison with a face mask on.
Doesn't he have a mask on currently that prevents him from conntacting the nests.
I'm saying he'd last longer then Raynar did and is stronger then him. Thats what I'm saying., albiet he'd still get his ass beat.
So what. "OMG he Lieka FOrce PusHED Luke!!! he is teh goddd!" Big deal he force pushed somebody and agian once Luke got SERIOUS, he shitted on Raynar remeber the little, "Luke was rooted so strong in the force that not even the BLACK HOLE at the center of the galaxy could budge him"
No, because Luke and Leia struggling with one is an inconsistency that's overruled by more than a dozen other sources.
He was still a Jedi. That's why Luke stated that he was the Jedi Order's fault and that it was their job to stop him. And do you have a page number for you quote? I'd like to see it. It's not because of what he once was, it's because of what he is.
Raynar is actually under care of Cighal as of the third LOTF book and is going to be there for something like five more years.
As of LOTF, but I meant Raynar at his peak, which would be during the DN books.
Lets see you prove that Revan is stronger than Raynar. And btw, Raynar has done things a whole lot more impressive than Raynar. He could stop the turbolasers headed towards his ship from hitting him, he could mentally dominate almost anyone. Luke was barely able to maintain focus when Raynar pressed his will onto him. Raynar was able to destroy the guns on the Falcon with a flick of his wrist and he was so strong that several of the Jedi in the Order had their doubts about Luke being able to defeat him on his own and wanted Kyp to go with Luke.
I'm not arguing on whether or not Raynar could defeat Luke, I'm saying that he's stronger than Revan.
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It was Mara, and again the lumiya reference, they were actually dueling it wasn't just luiya came in and hit'em and ran, correct me if I'm wrong.
No, he wasn't at least not the version of him your trying to prove was, while under the influence of the Dark Nest he is no longer his former self at all, thats like saying Ventress who was once a Jedi student is still on even though she has given herself to the Dark Side and isn't in the right frame of mind. Or like Arrura Sing is still a Jedi because she was the "Orders Responsibility" hence why they sent dozens of Jedi to face her. Being the "Orders Responsibility" =/= Being a Jedi. The Sith are the Orders default responsibility to deal with too, I guess they're also Jedi. And as for the page # I don't have to book with me currently, it is however also on Wookie (for whatever thats worth) and they don't tend to lie about quotes.
That isn't Raynar so again your point...
"Raynar has done things a whole lot more impressive than Raynar"
I bet he has! So, he is more powerful then Revan because he has the nests and the Dark Nest to give him power and he's done a few feats? No, Revan has done the whole "overpowering" Jedi's will and actually broke them, at Malachor, And big whoop, he has basically an entire book series dedicated to him of course he's going to have more feats.
The Revan argument, for all that Unu has done Revan is still more impressive, and AGAIN what happened when Luke got serious? HE SHITTED ON HIM.
Yeah basing it on Luke fighting his opponent half heartedly, we've seen when Luke doesn't fight with all his heart/wit into the fight (see Lumiya keeping up with him) And once Luke gets serious he shits on Raynar and lugs his ass back to the Jedi.
What are you talking about with Lumiya? I was referring to the inconsistency with the Droideka.
Raynar was still a Jedi in the DN books as he was still a lightsider and still believed in the Jedi ways. Him being insane doesn't make him not a Jedi. Joruus was insane, but he was a Dark Jedi still because he used the Darkside and did other things that darksiders do, like dominate others. The Sith and Aurra were fought by the Jedi because they wrought havoc on the Republic. Raynar was not hurting the Republic, so he wouldn't have automatically been the Jedi's responsibility.And your quote comes from someone who was insane.
It is Raynar. Even if it weren't, Raynar as UnuThul fits the definition of a Jedi Lord so would still be a Jedi.
1. It was Malachor that broke their wills, not Revan.
2. Raynar overpowered post-NJO Jedi that are far beyond anyone from Revan's time.
3. It's not that Raynar has more feats, it's that he has better ones. And although he is a major character in the DN books he actually has very little screen time.
Actually, before the end of the fight Luke was stated to be desperate. Name Revan's top three feats and I promise that I can name three by Raynar that are superior.
Again, Luke was deperate before the end of the fight and Revan wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as Raynar did.
I've no time to answer you big block on Revan right now, so I'll get to it in a few hours.
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He was a lightsider? He may have filled the killiks with his values but he was still being controlled and manipulated by the Dark Nest.
Dark Jedi =/= Jedi, Dark Jedi is the term we fans give to Dark Side characters who use the Dark Side of the force, simply because its easier then typing out Dark Force User. Thus that makes him no longer a Jedi, just because you don't "officially" change your title to Sith Lord doesn't make you not a Jedi anymore...if you no longer follow the Jedi code, YOUR NOT A JEDI. Did Raynar by the end of the Swarm WAR? No. He's not a Jedi.
Uh no...Aurra was a bounty hunter who hunted JEDI, thats no the Republic, and all a Sith Lord would have to do is waltz into a Jedi Temple and say "Hi Ima Sith Lord" and they'd pounce on him with extreme prejudice.
No, this is the Raynar that your posing can beat Revan, the one being manipulated and controlled by the Dark Nest, he was insane and wasn't a Jedi.
A Jedi Lord? You mean something that went out with the Russan Reformations...The Jedi don't do that kind of active domination of governments anymore.
Revan drew the energy up. And the game is riddled with Kreia talking about how Revan could break the will of Jedi, and how Revan could form mass bonds with large people to exploit them.
LOL, there are about 4 Jedi who would be on Revans level, Luke, Kyle, Kyp and Jacen(whom he couldn't control) now unless you wanna try and say controlling LIEA is a big feat then be my guest. The rest...no. Unless your seriously gonna sit here and try to tell me Mara Jade is as strong as Revan. Please, I thought we were all past the NJO cock sucking.
Your opinion
Actually, before the end of the fight Luke was stated to be desperate. Name Revan's top three feats and I promise that I can name three by Raynar that are superior.
Big f*cking whoop, again Luke was desperate against Lumiya, and had to resort to shooting her with a blaster five times.
And I could give two shits on a stick about a stupid feat war (which is what you wanna turn this into)
"Well Revan didn't do feat A, so Raynar is stronger!"
Since you can't quantify how much power it takes to force push Luke when he's not rooting himself to the ground, you really have no point, who's to say Revan, Kyp, Yoda, Mara, or even Ben couldn't do it.
Again you're opinion. And so what, he was desperate...he also knocked the shit out of Unuthrul then proceed to dice up Lomi Plo, And of course he was desperate he was fighting TWO people drawing power from thousands.
Whatever. Revan beating Malak on the Star Forge, while he was being described as near invincible is more impressive then anything Raynar has ever done.
Heres the problem with your argument:
1. This is Unuthrul your talking about NOT Raynar, they were two separate personalities, the Hive Mind was the one doing all your leet feats.
2. UnuThrul gets an unfair advantage in the first place, him being able to draw energy from the hives, and the joiners, who at that time included Lomi Plo, Alema, Jania and other Force Users. Where as his own power is likely MUCH weaker then this.
3. This version of Raynar, Unuthrul, is not a Jedi and is thus void from this discussion of (the most powerful jedi) in the first place
4. Your nutting your pants over a force push, when Luke wasn't fighting seriously, then again what happens when he gets serious...he knocks the shit out of Raynar then dices Lomi into four pieces.
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Last edited by Dr. Styles on Jan 8th, 2007 at 01:59 AM
I'd put Mace far above Revan in dueling, with Revan having a slight edge in pure offensive force power, but not much. And I'd put Yoda much better then Revan in both dueling and force.
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Revan isnt so bad, hes pimp you know, he has 2 girl friends, exile and bastila and not to forget he is mace windus ancestor lol.
Ok jokes aside, Revan as a lightsider would be problably in the top 10 most powerful force users, hell LS revan > exar kun infact by playing Jedi academy you will actually see later on that the lightside is indeed stronger than the dark
WTF? Last I checked, trying to dominate the minds of fellow Jedi wasn't exactly Jedi protocol. Raynar - who by now has been twisted into UnuThul, and hence is a completely different person with completely different ideals - is not a Jedi as UnuThul, so he shouldn't hold a spot in the top five most powerful Jedi of all time.
There haven't been "Jedi Lords" since Hoth's time, Glentract, and UnuThul doesn't fit that description at all anyway.
Way to take things completely out of context. After Luke finished beating the living crap out of UnuThul, he went on to start pwning Lomi Plo. Thul shot him in the right shoulder from behind, thus paralyzing his weapon hand. Even then, he managed to incapacitate Thul again, before being described as "desperate" when Lomi Plo bears down on him with two lightsabers, when all he has is his weaker left arm to duel with. What happens next? He breaks her leg, gets away, and dices her into quarters. UnuThul isn't even a challenge for him.
See the above.
And for the record - cuz we know how you like to twist things - the first time Luke was hit by a Force-push from Thul, they hadn't yet begun their duel. The maniac just popped out and knocked him down the length of the hallway. But when UnuThul actually got one off in their fight, Luke blocked it without flinching.
I agree with this. Yet at the same time we have little knowledge of Revan's saber skills. We know he was the best in the order of tens of thousands but that doesn't say much considering it's very hard to compare two different generations. We know that his force abilities do indeed rival Yoda's.