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Pre-retcon Amalgam Brothers discussion
Started by: Thanos_THOTU

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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
No, the point is, Spider-man's power is illogical, to lift 10 tons you would need the musles of 10-20 elephants, so Spider-man is illogical, so is Superman and so forth.
But we don't say that Superman loses by default while fighting Punisher.

No, their powers defy physics, not logic.

It's not illogical to have a flying, sentient icecube the size of saturn that can shoot fireballs.

It is illogical to have an icecube the size of saturn which is both spherical and cubical at the same time.

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Apr 4th, 2007 06:58 PM

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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Gender: Male
Location: Mars, 1985

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
In logical sense, one omnipotent would be one too much, in other words. Omnipotence is impossible.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
This goes back to the age old question, which really proves that nothing can be truly omnipotent.

If TOAA was trying, could he create a boulder so large, that he could not lift it?

If yes, then TOAA didn't do what he meant to do.... Proving he was not omnipotent.

If no, then TOAA didn't do what he meant to do.... Proving he was not omnipotent.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:00 PM

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Mr Master
Junior Member

Gender: Male
Location: somewhere within time & space

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, their powers defy physics, not logic.

It's not illogical to have a flying, sentient icecube the size of saturn that can shoot fireballs.

It is illogical to have an icecube the size of saturn which is both spherical and cubical at the same time.

Nice.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:04 PM

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Astner
The Ghost Who Walks

Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, their powers defy physics, not logic.

I think you missunderstood it at some point.
Physics = Logical

If: 1, 2, 3, 1, 2 ... is a pattern, then logicaly 3 would be the following.
Logicaly 1 + 1 = 2
Don't you think that if I made a comic I could twist reality so that 1 + 1 = 3 there?
Same goes for Superman's power.

Apr 4th, 2007 07:05 PM

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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
This goes back to the age old question, which really proves that nothing can be truly omnipotent.

If TOAA was trying, could he create a boulder so large, that he could not lift it?

If yes, then TOAA didn't do what he meant to do.... Proving he was not omnipotent.

If no, then TOAA didn't do what he meant to do.... Proving he was not omnipotent.

So therefore you redefine omnipotence to mean something other than what it really means.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:08 PM

Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I think you missunderstood it at some point.
Physics = Logical

If: 1, 2, 3, 1, 2 ... is a pattern, then logicaly 3 would be the following.
Logicaly 1 + 1 = 2
Don't you think that if I made a comic I could twist reality so that 1 + 1 = 3 there?
Same goes for Superman's power.

Physics are subject to logic, but defying physics isn't a logical impossibility.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:09 PM

Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Gender: Male
Location: Mars, 1985

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, their powers defy physics, not logic.

It's not illogical to have a flying, sentient ice cube the size of saturn that can shoot fireballs.

It is illogical to have an ice cube the size of saturn which is both spherical and cubical at the same time.

Unless this ice cube is a sphere within a cube.

In that case not only could it be both, but it would make logical sense. smile

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:09 PM

Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Gender: Male
Location: Mars, 1985

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So therefore you redefine omnipotence to mean something other than what it really means.

I redefined nothing.

It is a genuine question, which really disproves omnipotence.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:10 PM

Mr Master
Junior Member

Gender: Male
Location: somewhere within time & space

I'm just glad that this is a Non-Canon event.

I'm even more glad,

that this "Brothers" idea was brought into Continuity with a comprehensible approach.

Now, since it was retconned into Continuity it fell in place with the rest of the Canonically established Historical Facts,

concerning Marvel atleast. cool

And the Retcon IS now Official, at Marvel.com, even DC is mentioned, the Spectre and the Writers of both Companies.

It does not go into details of what became of DC's Brother, but Marvel's is covered.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:11 PM

Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Unless this ice cube is a sphere within a cube.

In that case not only could it be both, but it would make logical sense.

No, the overall shape, not any subshape, is both a sphere and a cube at the same time. Logically impossible.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:12 PM

Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
I redefined nothing.

It is a genuine question, which really disproves omnipotence.

Yet you still say that beings who have shown limitations are omnipotent.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:12 PM

Astner
The Ghost Who Walks

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Physics are subject to logic, but defying physics isn't a logical impossibility.

You're still able to defy logic in comics.

Apr 4th, 2007 07:12 PM

Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
You're still able to defy logic in comics.

Can you give an example?

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:20 PM

Astner
The Ghost Who Walks

Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Can you give an example?

Surpass infinity?
Have more than one omnipotent, in Marvel there are many omnipotent beings, it have been stated a couple of times.
And so forth.

Apr 4th, 2007 07:25 PM

Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Surpass infinity?
Have more than one omnipotent, in Marvel there are many omnipotent beings, it have been stated a couple of times.
And so forth.

No, in Marvel there is only one true omnipotent, TOAA. Some others may be stated to be omnipotent, but their demonstrated limitations prove those statements to be false.

As for surpassing infinity, look up Cardinal Numbers.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:27 PM

Astner
The Ghost Who Walks

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, in Marvel there is only one true omnipotent, TOAA. Some others may be stated to be omnipotent, but their demonstrated limitations prove those statements to be false.

As for surpassing infinity, look up Cardinal Numbers.

Living Tribunal stated that the Beyonders, though bellow him, are omnipotent beings.

Apr 4th, 2007 07:30 PM

Astner
The Ghost Who Walks

Gender: Male
Location:

It would be like saying are there more numbers between 0-1 than 0-infinity, there are exactly as many.

Apr 4th, 2007 07:35 PM

Mr Master
Junior Member

Gender: Male
Location: somewhere within time & space

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU

Hey T,

your Sig is incomplete and gives a false impression of what I was saying.

You partially quoted my post,

and left out the rest that shows the sarcasm I intended.

"Again, the DC & Marvel Brothers could have been beyond TOAA and the Presence,

cause it's a Non-Canon arc, just like Aunt May could be beyond TOAA"

Anything goes in a Non-Canon event, Writers can do anything.

Were these Brothers = to or beyond TOAA & Presence?

Who cares?

It makes no difference concerning Comics that matter.

Just wanted to clear that up for the record.

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Apr 4th, 2007 07:44 PM

Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Gender: Male
Location: Mars, 1985

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, the overall shape, not any subshape, is both a sphere and a cube at the same time. Logically impossible.

K, well you didn't specify that the first time, so I had to throw it out there. smile

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yet you still say that beings who have shown limitations are omnipotent.

Answer me this in yes or no form please.

Can TOAA, (absolutely omnipotent/omniscient within Marvel),

create a boulder so heavy that he could not lift it?

Either way you answer proves that omnipotence in the literal sense is an impossibility, (even within comic-dom).

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Last edited by Galan007 on Apr 4th, 2007 at 08:04 PM

Apr 4th, 2007 07:53 PM

Astner
The Ghost Who Walks

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Master
Hey T,

your Sig is incomplete and gives a false impression of what I was saying.

You partially quoted my post,

and left out the rest that shows the sarcasm I intended.

I said it before. The entire post don't fit.

quote:
"Again, the DC & Marvel Brothers could have been beyond TOAA and the Presence,

cause it's a Non-Canon arc, just like Aunt May could be beyond TOAA"

Anything goes in a Non-Canon event, Writers can do anything.

Were these Brothers = to or beyond TOAA & Presence?

Who cares?

It makes no difference concerning Comics that matter.

Just wanted to clear that up for the record.

It's the same as Beyonder (pre-retcon) since his action is not canon, as well as the Brother's.

Apr 4th, 2007 08:37 PM

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