But there are different levels of infinity.A universe is infinite in size.A multiverse has multiple universes that are all infinite in size.An omniverse has an infinite amount of universes which are all infinite in size.
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Multiverse, megaverse, omniverse... Those are all words used to describe groups of universes -- ie. a multiverse is a collection of universes, a megaverse is a collection of multiverses, the omniverse is all realms in a specific company.
That terminology is NOT used to describe 'levels of infinity', so much as 'groups of infinities'.
You say "infinite" as though it is a fixed variable with some sort of foreseeable end. That isn't how it works. Having said that, universes are not infinite, but rather, they are on a perpetual cycle of infinite outward expansion... Always growing. That's why multiversal powers are > universal powers. Neither of which is truly infinite, but one is bigger than the other because it contains more 'parts' (so to speak.)
That has no bearing on my main point, though: ie. if a character supposedly has infinite power, but they are still weaker than someone else, then their power was never infinite to begin with.
I actually believe in, and understand, the concept of varying levels of "infinite."
Imagine me and some other guy are connected to a resevoir of infinite power; I am connected to the power source with a straw, but the other guy is connected to the same source with a water hose...
We both possess infinite power (as we both can access this power source indefinitely) but the other guy can access and manipulate a greater amount of energy at one time than I can...
In that sense, one infinite can be greater than another infinite; think about it in an even simplier fashion...
Two guys are counting as high as they possibly can (and keep in mind that you, obviously, will never run out of numbers)...but one guy is able to count much faster than the other guy; both guys can access an infinite amount of numbers, but one of the guys infinite (at any given point in time) will be much greater than the other guys infinite.
^ Having access to infinite power =/= actually having infinite power. Your description is more akin to what happened in "Marvel: The End" -- ie. Akhenaton was able to draw power from THOTI, thereby gaining relative omnipotence. Thanos, however, became more powerful than Akhenaton by literally merging with the Heart, thus gaining ALL of it's power. In simpler terms: Akhenaton was a river which leeched it's water from an ocean. Thanos WAS the ocean.
THAT concept does make sense. Unfortunately, THAT concept isn't at all like the one Kubik described.
Kubik states that he has infinite power. Then after speechifying on differing levels of infinity, he says that Celestials possess transinfinite levels of power several orders of magnitude beyond his own.
You said that a Celestial can simply access infinite power on a greater scale than Kubik -- which is a cool idea, but it's not what the issue was getting at.
The issue was meant to introduce the concept of differing levels of infinity. Kubik said he possessed infinite power - he then states that the Celestials possess a much greater level of infinite power [trans-infinite, as he calls it] which is several magnitudes above his own. He even gives a numerical analogy as to how differing levels of infinity *should* work. In a nutshell: this tells me that there are different 'tiers' of infinite power that are achievable in Marvel. Kubik is in the lower infinite tier, Celestials are in the higher infinite tier.
Of course none of this changes the fact that Kubik's feats are far superior to anything the Celestials have done -- thus, I view Kubik as their superior until proven otherwise.
It was a good way though, for Marvel, to tell without having to portray what all those abstracts that until that point was, based on feats, below or equal to Silver Age Odin was infact much more powerful but never choosed to use their power to the magnitude that they actually could, in that regard Kubik's statement makes sense.
That Marvel could from my perspective have choosen a better way to explain it, perhaps a bit like when IB and Galactus fought each other.
I also think that we are forgetting exactly what happen in the given situation IF Kubik was just messing about he wouldn't have been scared when the unnamed Celestial was about to judge him.
You're either depicted with a infinite value or you're depicted with a finite value. Now in a mathematical sense--if you accept the Axiom of Choice--not all infinite values are equal.
Though Kubik failed to provide a proper explanation, I'm not going to nitpick.
The numerical concept Kubik described implied that "infinity a" was > "infinity b" because "infinity a" contained more numbers. That in itself is a laughable, self-serving oxymoron.
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Jun 6th, 2010 07:43 PM
