Juggernauts force field also physically stopped spidermans webbing. The Webbing stuck to his force field not him. When Spiderman tried to hit Juggs he bounced off the force field and almost got killed by smacking into a roof. Maxima loses, but looks like a champ doing it.
Since when does removing his helmet remove his powers (2nd scan) and since when does Black Tom design his helmet (3rd scan)???? I'd disagree with the underlined part. I didn't see it all the times he's fought the Hulk. Or Thunderstrike, or X-Force, or Cannonball.
Like a lot of things about the Juggernaut character the helmet has been shown differently. His helmet has been bolted on which is how I think it was shown in the Nimrod scene, it has been strapped on, and other times it has been mystically sealed to his armor.
It's also not as durable as as one would like, if I remember correctly it has been blasted off by an alien laser, obviously the Hulk has dented it. Most of this is from memory so I could be wrong about some details.
It's durability isn't in question. Unlike his armor and the crimson bands on his arms, which have never really been damaged, the helmet is the weak point. It's like the proverbial chink in the armor, and in reality it has to be. If his helmet was as indestructible as everything else, you'd never beat him.
What is in question, is whether this Classic Juggernaut has his forcefield or not. With it, Maxima stands no chance. WIthout it, Maxima's chances are a lot better, but it won't be easy wins for her. Cain's still worlds stronger and durable enough to not really be phased by her.
Forcefield = Juggernaut 10/10
No Forcefield = Maxima 5.5-7/10
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that's not what i'm doing with mm at all. YOU brought him up don't forget. mm has feats that would put him well beyond someone like cyttorak imo, but if you don't want to believe that that's up to you and this is no place for that discussion as it's off-topic. make a moleculeman vs cyttorak thread if you'd like.
your initial query was do i think sersi could transmute juggs. my answer was and is i don't think there is any chance at all that could happen--nor do i suspect would i be alone in that thought. but that doesn't mean NO ONE could so so. i guess i could ask you what proof do YOU have that would make anyone think sersi's powers COULD affect juggs through his forcefield? what feats of hers, or AGAINST juggs, would warrant that belief?
Well yeah I brought him up. Some people say that Maxima wouldn't be able to transmute Juggs helmet. Therefore, I just asked your opinion on whether Sersi or Molecule Man could matter manipulate the helmet to gauge if it's matter manipulation that Juggs is immune to or something else.
Okay, but why Molecule Man, and not Sersi? You said that Molecule Man is much more powerful that Cytorrak. What are you basing that belief on? Any particular feats?
I never made any claims about Molecule Man being more powerful than Cytorrak, and therefore more powerful than Sersi, so the burden of proof isn't on me to defend that claim.
Maxima is strong/durable enough that she can hang with Superman(most of the time), and her telekinesis is pretty powerful. When she was weakened and demoralized(Starbreaker had absorbed quite a bit of her energy and the people she ruled kicked her head in), she was capable of manipulating continental plates on a planet that was supposed to be much larger than Earth. She is also MUCH MUCH MUCH faster than Juggernaut. And if the helmet does come off during the fight, her telepathy ends him. During PANIC IN THE SKIES she matched and defeated Brainiac(when he was amped by WarWorld) in a telepathic stand-off.
Panic in the Sky is a questionable source, considering Maxima was putting up a fight while he was jacked into Warworld, yet Brainiac also took down Metron while he was in his mobious chair, yet Dubblex was able to shield himself using that same chair.
Metron folding is the main thing here.. If he can't even last one second (Considering even Martian Manhunter couldn't mind screw a New God, and Maxima is beneath J'onn on the tp tree..), no way Maxima should be able to.
The only time that Superman backhanded Maxima was when the Eradicator had possessed Clark, so it's misleading to be using that one. I mean, she's taken super speed roundhouse kicks and pressure point attacks from Superman and kept fighting.
What are you basing this on? Their fights in OWAW, and the one drawn by Tom Grummett certainly don't illustrate what you're claiming.
He was possessed by Eradicator, yes. And that's why he didn't pull his punch.
Juggernaut won't pull his blows normally, and he's certainly comparable to Superman in sheer strength. (Perhaps not as strong, but on the same tier shared by Superman, Thor, Savage Hulk.. A tier Maxima is below.)
As for why I don't think she's a real threat: Because she's never actually damaged him. She'll spend half an issue belting him around a city, and not draw blood and really seem to hurt him.. And in that Eradicator possession example you mentioned, he walked right through her tk, as she was attempting to kill him. Eradicator affected his bloodlust, but not his physical stats, so that's a durability feat.
Of course Classic Juggernaut has his force field, it's been a part of his character since the beginning and I mean very beginning, his first comic arc had him use it.
What I'm saying is, he's been drawn without it in his classic incarnation a bunch of times. Even if it's not stated. That's the only way people like Beast, Angel, etc... could remove it.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
why mm and sersi? mm is WAY above sersi based on a number of feats. his battle against the beyonder alone illustrates that. check his respect thread. sersi is an insect to mm so i don't get the comparsion as any failure in her ability to affect juggs bears no relationship to his ability to do so.
hmm, you don't know mm, huh? like i said, check the respect thread. or don't if you're not inclined. but yeah, i'd def place owen well above cyttorak, especially in light of the fact that cyttorak has next to no feats. both are well above sersi or max.
i never asked you to defend THAT position at all and in fact said take the discussion elsewhere. my specific question is in direct relation to your own--you asked why i didn't think sersi could affect him. i don't think she has the power to transmute him through his ff. simple. she has no feats that would support her ability to dos o, and juggs has had nothing done to him like that that would suggest it could work. WITHOUT the ff, she might be able to affect his helmet, like max could affect it with her ferrokinesis. maybe. but you seemed to think she COULD affect it through the ff. so....why? what support do YOU have that she could? if you're not positing that she could, and have no stance, then you're only asking questions to get an opinion, which i've given. if you're questioning said opinion, then where's the proof to support the contrary?
If you're saying that the Eradicator only affected his bloodlust when he walked right through her tk, then why was Superman getting knocked down prior to his costume transformation?
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Jun 5th, 2012 01:26 AM
