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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » ROTS Kenobi vs. Zone Anakin


ROTS Kenobi vs. Zone Anakin
Started by: KuRuPT Thanosi

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mnat801
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The film lacks narrative, and for that the novel is accounted for. The duel in the novel ends the exact same way, the difference is that we get a personal account from Obi-Wan's perspective. The novels allow us insight in to what the characters feel at the very moment, something we can't see in films. For obvious reasons, Vader, Obi-Wan, Luke etc. aren't going to be narrating to the camera, but the book is able to. It's through this narration that we know who the better duelist really is. In the case of Phantom Menace, we know it's Maul. For RotS, we know about "Zonakin", we know how he felt, we can know Dooku's thoughts. And it's through the novel, that, no matter who won the fight, we learn that Obi-Wan is an inferior duelist and Force-user compared to Darth Vader.



This is not my opinion, nor is it yours. This is canonical fact. You don't get to cherry pick what fits just because you have a preconceived notion.
What is canonical fact, is that it was vader whose limbs were chopped off, not kenobis. if vader was the superior duelist, he would not let this happen to him. and THAT is not MY opinion, it is fact.

Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 11:31 AM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by mnat801
What is canonical fact, is that it was vader whose limbs were chopped off, not kenobis. if vader was the superior duelist, he would not let this happen to him. and THAT is not MY opinion, it is fact.



Seems you've already forgotten what PIS is. Kay, I'm done, you're never going to get it. If you refuse to read the novel, it's your own foolishness.


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 11:48 AM
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mnat801
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Registered: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien



Seems you've already forgotten what PIS is. Kay, I'm done, you're never going to get it. If you refuse to read the novel, it's your own foolishness.
That is some convincing responce...

Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 12:07 PM
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Lord Lucien
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Considering that no response will ever convince you, I'll take that as a compliment.


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 12:22 PM
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mnat801
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Considering that no response will ever convince you, I'll take that as a compliment.
All you have told me is that a novel teaches us to realise that anakin is a better duelist, and that this PIS nonsense means i cant use clear facts from the film, which i believe is unfair. i have not been reckless in my arguments, i have used reasonable occurences from the most reliable source.

Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 12:35 PM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by mnat801
All you have told me is that a novel teaches us to realise that anakin is a better duelist, and that this PIS nonsense means i cant use clear facts from the film, which i believe is unfair.
Unfortunately then, this is exactly the case. You seem to understand everything else, but you're refusing to acknowledge PIS and accept canon. You have no place here if that's the case.


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 12:56 PM
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mnat801
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Registered: Sep 2012
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Unfortunately then, this is exactly the case. You seem to understand everything else, but you're refusing to acknowledge PIS and accept canon. You have no place here if that's the case.
Ok, but your stating a FACT that vader is a superior duelist than obi wan. In that case, i do have the right to use any means necessary to deny that, whether this forum has specific rules not. If you said that was your opinion, however, then there is no need for me to argue.

Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 01:09 PM
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Lord Lucien
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So... if I were to state that 2+2=4, you'd feel the need to argue it? But if I opined that 2+2=5, you'd feel no need to argue it? You feel the need to argue against fact, but utterly accept subjective opinion?





The f*ck?


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 08:36 PM
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mnat801
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Registered: Sep 2012
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So... if I were to state that 2+2=4, you'd feel the need to argue it? But if I opined that 2+2=5, you'd feel no need to argue it? You feel the need to argue against fact, but utterly accept subjective opinion?





The f*ck?
NO. I meant that your are stating something that is a fact, when it actually isn't.

Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 10:54 PM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by mnat801
NO. I meant that your are stating something that is a fact, when it actually isn't.
Question: do you understand Star Wars canon, or have you just been (figuratively) nodding along whenever I bring it up?


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2012 11:34 PM
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Lord Stark
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by mnat801
i agree with the fact that novels provide more narrative, but anakin never got the better of obi wan, and if he WAS the better duelist, he would have broken obi wans defence and striked him down. but he didnt, therefore he is not superior to obi wan as a duelist. The film is enough proof for this! only until vader can break kenobis defence like dooku did in AOTC can you prove to me that kenobi is the inferior duelist.

And im pretty sure im being rational here.


Jesus Christ man, in Star Wars a Jedi's power is determined by their focus. Obi-Wan was focused and determined to defeat Anakin, Anakin was conflicted, shown crying right before and just force choked his wife.


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Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 01:11 AM
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mnat801
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Jesus Christ man, in Star Wars a Jedi's power is determined by their focus. Obi-Wan was focused and determined to defeat Anakin, Anakin was conflicted, shown crying right before and just force choked his wife.
Yes, I know this, so whats your point? Im not arguing that obi wan was a better duelist than anakin, rather the fact that anakin is not a better duelist than obi wan! This is clearly shown in the ROTS film!

Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 03:17 AM
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mnat801
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Question: do you understand Star Wars canon, or have you just been (figuratively) nodding along whenever I bring it up?
I do understand SW canon. So where does it ever say that anakin IS a better duelist than obi wan?

Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 03:21 AM
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Lord Lucien
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The novel. Go read it.


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Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 04:04 AM
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mnat801
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Registered: Sep 2012
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The novel. Go read it.
Ok well if this novel did indeed state that vader was a better duelist than obi wan, then good for you. But I still personally believe that this is not true, with reference to what ive seen in the film.

Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 04:56 AM
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Dominis
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Registered: Sep 2008
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I guess a Vader vs. Palpatine thread would be a spite thread. All Vader has to do is pick Palpatine up and throw him down a reactor shaft, because that's what happened in the film.


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Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 05:19 AM
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mnat801
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Registered: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I guess a Vader vs. Palpatine thread would be a spite thread. All Vader has to do is pick Palpatine up and throw him down a reactor shaft, because that's what happened in the film.
We could say thats due to sids being so suprised, eg how maul was suprised when kenobi cut him in half.

Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 05:32 AM
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Zett
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Registered: Oct 2011
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Jesus Christ man, in Star Wars a Jedi's power is determined by their focus. Obi-Wan was focused and determined to defeat Anakin, Anakin was conflicted, shown crying right before and just force choked his wife.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by mnat801
Yes, I know this, so whats your point? Im not arguing that obi wan was a better duelist than anakin, rather the fact that anakin is not a better duelist than obi wan! This is clearly shown in the ROTS film!


I assume, he means, that Anakin wasn't able to give 100% from himself when he confronted Obi-Wan.
When Anakin was giving 100% from himself, he was able to defeat people from Dooku's league, which was far above Obi-wan's.

If my interpretation of his post is correct, then I agree with that.

Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 01:28 PM
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KuRuPT Thanosi
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Anakin is the better duelist no matter who wins or loses. That's the point of this, who is the better duelist, not who won. Don't you get that yet? The novelization of RotS puts clear as day that Anakin is a superior duelist, and a more powerful Force-user.



What matters in this forum, is feats. PIS isn't a feat; I can't seem to get that through to you. It's a very specific variable that is placed in on behalf of the plot, and that is something that we do not, and can not use in these threads. Plot variables and character motivations are prone to opinion and subjectivity, and thus, a useless thread. I think that's what you're not understanding. We literally can not use that stuff here. Do you get it yet?


Post the narration that says Anakin is the clear superior duelist please. I recall no such narration. Furthermore, Anakin DIDN"T prove to be the better duelist and I don't you keep spouting this rhetoric. Kenobi in fact, proved to be superior. You can scream PIS till you can't breath anymore but there was no such thing. They fight IN CHARACTER ON THIS FORUM. It was IN CHARACTER FOR ANAKIN to try such an arrogant move. Period. That isn't PIS, that is Anakin fighting in character.

Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 07:18 PM
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Jinsoku Takai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by mnat801
We could say thats due to sids being so suprised, eg how maul was suprised when kenobi cut him in half.


That's PIS dude... that's what LL is referring to. The same philosophy holds true for the Vader/Kenobi duel in RotS.


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Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 07:24 PM
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