Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
That is destiny talk not like he's unkillable. He also states in the film they are going to obliterate the island. He never says he's not powerful enough to defeat Luke. That's the problem here you'll sidestep the film and misinterpret one quote to reach your biased conclusions.
That would only be Luke's opinion. Feelings are not facts. None of these characters are all knowing. Kenobi believed in Anakin and never believed he'd turn to the dark side but that doesn't mean his opinion didn't change when he saw Anakin's actions.
Based off the facts Snoke wins. It isn't close. Luke is powerful but he just doesn't stack up to Snoke.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Why would he ? Should Trump challenge that dope from North Korea to a one on one fight ? Just as Palpatine ordered the Jedi to be killed he wasn't personally involved with slaying Jedi until Yoda confronted him. Even then once Yoda recovered he tried to exit the fight. That doesn't prove he isn't as powerful as Yoda just that he didn't want to risk his life in a duel.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Yes, it is. Anything killing someone less than being cut in half is less than Maul's feat and somehow matters to you in a versus fight. You ignore his biology, his age, and his later death to reach your conclusions.
The most objective, reasonable interpretation of "only a Skywalker can kill Luke" is "Luke is really powerful so you need the potential of an heir of the Chosen One to beat him". Instead you invent a fictitious prophecy to support your position, lmao.
But your most frequent argument is Luke's opinion on Kylo and Rey's power.
Why do you take Luke's opinion on raw power and extrapolate to guess current power, but not Snoke's direct assessment of Luke's abilities?
You make more double standards than almost anyone, lol.
Based off the facts Snoke, who is hardly one to underestimate himself (quite the opposite), doesn't think he can kill Luke. If you were interested in being objective you'd just acknowledge Luke's superiority based on the available data.
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First of Maul’s survival is specifically a dark side thing, powered by rage. A Jedi wouldn’t survive that.
Second Snoke and Maul’s bisecting was similar (at the mid section), and both done by a Lightsaber.
Sure Snoke is old and weak ( which would benefit Maul in combat against him), But he didn’t even survive seconds. It’s a great feat by Maul which Snoke most likely can’t replicate at all. Too physically weak.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
I have no more evidence other than my interpretation. You have yours and somehow believe your interpretation is a fact.
He says they are going to obliterate his island from space which has nothing to do with Kylo who he proves he's far more powerful than in the film. Kylo can't overpower Rey while Snoke tosses her around at will so how much sense would it make to send a less powerful guy than himself to take out Luke at that point. He will have him slaughtered as any powerful ruler with an army would.
Luke himself says it's silly to think Luke himself can take on the First Order. Your interpration makes no sense on any level.
It's a good indicator of sensing power. We also see Rey knock him on his ass which is a fact. We see Ben defeat and almost kill him.
I do not see Luke dramatically overpower Rey or Kylo. I see Snoke do so.
Snoke wants his location to have him killed. He isn't sending Kylo to kill him via duel as that makes no sense. He does send Kylo out to carry his objectives but that'd be a foolish risk to take as well when they can safely obliterate him from space.
Snoke was unaware he cut himself off from the force so he wasn't aware of Luke's mindset and his recent experiences either. He admits he was wrong about Luke when he acknowledged Rey's rise in power.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Not by rage but by passion to protect someone else perhaps a possibility.
Their age and biology isn't similar. Do you think any qualified scientist wouldn't see the differences in age and biology and just reach the same conclusion.
Snoke's body is older and physically weaker. When Maul was older he was killed by less than being cut in half. Snoke's force powers are vastly superior so he ragdolls Maul at will.
*facepalm* The fact that he said he was going to obliterate the island proves that he's not aware of your fan prophecy but was just talking about combat. He thought: "Kylo could become powerful enough to kill Luke, but he isn't, so I'll just use turbolasers".
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Nope. It was specifically confirmed a Jedi wouldn’t cling to life so abnormally. It’s a dark side thing only.
What’s the difference in their biology that would make a huge difference in being bisected? Do you know something we don’t or are you just speculating?
In any case it was Maul’s dark side rage that was the main source of his survival, not his biology.
Yes Snoke is very physically weak. So much so he needs to rely on his guards for protection against Lightsaber combatants. Not a good case for him defeating Maul.
Maul has already been cut in 2, so obviously can’t survive a serious injury to his upper body that’s left. Yet still he lives long enough to dialogue with Obi-Wan. And that was Old Maul.
Just face it, Snoke’s physicality is too big a weakness for him. Given that, without his guards I don’t see him taking a physical beast, skilled Saber wielder and force user of Maul’s caliber. Not in 1 v 1 combat anyway. He’d probably take Maul from a good amount of distance though, like over a hologram screen or view screen.
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Just because he has guards and weak physicality doesn't necessarily mean that Snoke *relies* on his guards. There's only one person who could actually stand up to Snoke in the galaxy, and that's Luke. It's probably more of an attempt to replicate the old empire, which is what Snoke is obviously trying to do if you read the Visual Dictionary.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
In the film he admits he was wrong about Luke and is just going to have him killed. No powerful leader outside of pricing himself would take the risk. We see Kylo have Luke blasted but when that doesn't work he goes down there himself to kill him. Snoke wanted him killed but never says he isn't powerful enough to do so. Just stop ignoring the film and common sense.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
To protect others I can see a Jedi doing so out of duty. Either way it doesn't prove anything combat wise. So you think Dooku could survive being cut in half ? Or Palpatine ?
We don't know but we don't ignore the fact they don't have the same biologies nor were they the same age. If you weight train at age 25 and 70 will your body have the same results ?
Watch the film. We see him wave off his personal guard and easily disarm a lightsaber combatant Luke was unable to disarm. You're ignoring the film and what we see like a typical Star Wars nerd from this forum. The showings matter not a small piece of text from a guide that can be interpreted a variety of ways.
We also see him use his powers to quickly punk Kylo ****ing Ren. His guards don't need to save him. He waves the ****ers off.
So old Maul dies to less since he's old. Look at what Kylo has survived in a Force Awakens. That doesn't mean he beats Snoke. I don't know if you're trolling or genuinely unable to see the sheer irrelevance of your point.
Snoke would fl him or remove his light saber and force rape him. Maul wouldn't ever touch him. Snoke's body is old and weak but he has the force the same as Yoda whose body was old and needed a cane for walking.
It's a dark side thing so no point in speculating.
It's a show of power. Like Luke's astro projection feat, which wasn't a combat feat either. But you know he's ridiculously powerful to do that.
But I'll grant you it's a combination of dark side power and physical durability.
Not sure if Dooku would survive that, but Palpatine definitely would.
The biology part is Speculation. We can only go by the showings we have, and will take other factors into account if they're specifically stated somewhere.
Again, the feat was mainly fueled by dark side. Snoke being a physical weakling who needs guards to protect him doesn't help his case.
Yeah from an advantaged position where he had more time to react. And his guards intimidate Ren right after.
Sure he's more powerful than Ren. But there's nothing to suggest he would ragdoll Ren the way he does Rey.
Maul's can take more than both Snoke and Kylo. He's also a far more skilled combatant going by feats. The only advantage Snoke has his TK, which up until TLJ you were arguing your ass off every week that TK only works when an opponent is caught off guard.
Yeah in your fantasies lol
He's done nothing to show he'd force rape Maul.
Yoda can use the force and be more physically able than Maul. Force powers enhance physicality like that.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
I also said surviving being killed isn't a dark side thing. Padme just lost the will to live and she isn't a dark sider.
Ok so it doesn't really matter in combat. Cool.
Ok. **** no he wouldn't. Dude was horribly scarred by fl which didn't happen to Luke, Maul, etc.
It doesn't pertain to a fight between the two. His physical body is older. Who cares ? Yoda's body is weaker than Kenobi's but we all know he'd win a duel. Same goes for Anoke he's too powerful with the force. He'd disarm Maul at will.
Oh please Snoke always called his hiards off. They don't put Kylo down Snoke does.
Yes, there is since Rey and Ren are equals. They stalemate for the lightsaber. Snoke destroys her. Rey resists Ren's attempts to extract the information. Snoke just rips it out of her.
Prior to Snoke that is correct. The power he displayed is off the charts. The manner in which he manipulates Rey's body however he wants, he force rapes the info something Kylo was unable to achieve, and how he disarms her whenever he wants. No one has ever dominated someone as powerful as she is going by Luke and Snoke's comments and her feats.
Ben and Rey are clearly force badasses. Maul was never that powerful on the force he was an exceptional duelist and a physical specimen. Snoke destroys him. He just can't compete. Snoke's force powers can enhance his physicality as well but since we don't see him with a saber I won't push the obvious.
Dec 21st, 2017 04:42 PM
