Shang-Chi wasn't standing around one day doing Kung-Fu forms, punching a Mu ren zhuang or diving his hands into cool and suddenly he developed the ability to use chi. He developed chi through meditation. IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SKILL AS A FIGHTER. It is a separate ability. He isn't a more skilled fighter than Wolverine because he can use chi, one has nothing to do with the other.
The "fight" was part of the philosophy. When Wolverine answered wrong, Shang-Chi attacked him... and Wolverine blocked. It wasn't a fight, it was a training exercise, one where Wolverine never once attempted to go on the offensive. Shang-Chi beat Wolverine in a training exercise, Wolverine folded Shang-Chi up like a lawn chair in a fight. Big, big difference.
Anyone other than Deadpool would have been killed in the second panel. Is your point that a powerless Wolverine would kill any fighter without a healing factor in two panels?
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Chi isn't learned through just mediation. There was a martial arts master that Taskmaster mimicked a chi strike. That master stated it took him 10 years to develop while TM did it the first time. It's more then just meditation srank. Its not a power like Logans powers if thats what your thinking so it doesn't even matter how you try to stretch it.
Exactly Shang attacked him and whats worse he gave Logan a heads up about it and Shang still did whatever he wanted to.......to Logan. It was separate yet part of the match. Its not like he was teaching Logan on how to throw a punch and then Logan simulating a punch....LOL. Big big difference and it was a fight with Shang teaching Logan philosophy. Shang dominated him and so did Ironfist no ifs and's or buts about it.
No it's my point that Logan did horrible against Deadpool without his healing.
And its my point that Logan Powers play a big role in his fights outside of your logic of its all skill and it counts no matter what type mentality.
Last edited by Daredevil1 on May 4th, 2011 at 09:48 PM
Yes I remember the iron fist technique Taskmaster copied that stop that guys heart, but that example is the outlier not the standard. Shang-Chi wasn't stand around one day honing his technique and then he spontaneously developed chi because he happened leveled up his Kung-Fu. That's not how it works.
Wolverine wasn't trying to beat up Shang-Chi. Shang-Chi wasn't trying to beat up Wolverine. Shang-Chi wanted to hit him three times, for answering wrong and in the process teach him about the Diamond Sword. Wolverine was there to learn form Shang-Chi, all he attempt to do was block or avoid Shang-Chi's attacks (which he was quite successful at). It was merely a training exercises, if it was a fight it would have - and in point of fact - did played out much differently.
Except he didn't do horrible against Deadpool. Powerless, he fought a skilled opponent with enhanced speed and strength and would have killed him in the second panel if it wasn't for Deadpool's healing factor.
Logan's powers play a big role in a lot of his fights, but they didn't play a role in any of the examples we are talking about, so that point is moot. His powers didn't help him walk all over Shang-Chi, nothing happened that would have required them. He just opened a can of martial arts kick ass that Shang-Chi could deal with.
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Outlier because you don't agree with it. That's how it works and you disagree because it makes your case look bad. Bottom line Shangs skills is >>> Logans skills unless you have some proof of Logan can even do half the things Shang can do and yes it makes sense to practice certain techniques are part with chi just like Taskmaster did but much quickly thanks to his Super Learning Serum.
Plus another note to add. Danny Ironfist also did a skillfull chi punch on Sabretooth after he lost his dragon enhancement power. Your mediation logic is wrong. It was a fight and not to Logan's benefit you just don't like it because Shang looked better and he was better in that fight despite Logan's stats/powers and his skill. You and me will just go circles on this one but so be it. Chi skills are techniques as well that Logan is not able to perform.
So only Deadpools enhance speed and strength help but Logan's against Shang's do not? Seriously I've cornered you into a trap and that's basically it. As Logan's enhanced stats and healing help and he lost to Deadpool without his fancy healing as most of the streets hold there own with Logan without a fancy healing factor or enhanced stats.
Logan's powers play a role and until you come up with some actual scenes where his powers are turned off and Logan stalemates the best, then you'll actually have some good sources. Until then it is silly to even consider Logan above the elite.
Last edited by Daredevil1 on May 5th, 2011 at 01:31 AM
It's the outlier because that's not how it works... it's how it worked... once... which is an outlier.
Because Danny having chi outside of Shou-lao the Undying and punching Sabretooth, means he didn't get it through mediation!
I don't dislike the example, I thought it was a good issue... but that doesn't make it a fight. It was a training match, that was the whole point of the issue. Wolverine went to Shang-Chi to get his help, which is what he got, they weren't in a Blood Sport fight pool. You need it to be a "fight" because if it isn't you have absolutely nothing to support your opinion. You are twisting facts to suit theories, and not theories to suit facts.
Shang-Chi has chi. Wolverine is more skilled. Have chi doesn't arbitrarily make a character more skilled, if it did Dragonfly would be more skilled than Daredevil.
Shang-Chi has enhanced strength and speed. Haven't we been over this? Do you have brain damage that prevents you from forming new memories? Is that why you say the same thing over and over again even though it has been addressed a dozen times now? I'm not Adam Sander, you're not Drew Barrymore and this isn't 50 First Dates, I'm not going to hold your hand and walk you through the same points over and over again. If you aren't going to read my posts, or you lack the reading comprehension needed to understand them, then don't reply to my posts.
Deadpool beat a powerless Wolverine after getting impaled and carved up because Wade had a healing factor. Wolverine beat Shang-Chi in a couple of panels without getting hit because he was just plain more skilled.
I don't know why this is complicated for you. Shang-Chi didn't put up a good enough fight for it to mater that Wolverine had powers. Wolverine beat him in like four panels without getting hit... how did his healing factor matter? It didn't. A powerless Wolverine would have dealt with Shang-Chi in the exact same way.
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Right because Marvel has come out and stated the only way chi works is through meditation and not practicing techniques....LOL. C'mon srank even your better then this but I guess not.
Yeah because mediation is the only way says you, as again you are clearly wrong. Outliers only count if you can prove it is which you have not. Meditation is one way for internal but one must practice external and also most other Anime univeses go by this and Marvel seems to be following that as well.
Read very slowly srank. Shang has chi skills that are on a level above the likes of Logan. He has more esoteric skills and that makes him more skilled and the fact that he can hold his own without any true powers like Logan or enhancements(adamantium) it really shows there is some what a skill gap between them. This isn't about Dragonfly or Daredevil. This is your ludicrous thinking about Shang/Wolverine that's very quite amusing......indeed.
Shang Chi has no powers and has incredible martial art skills. Yes we've been over this and yet you can't seem to grasp the difference. Its like your in a time loop like the Cap vs Korvac example and Korvac kept on resetting time when Cap was close to winning. Only you keep resetting it by you back wards circular logic and unlike Cap you keep losing. Truly you Logan love is actually looking sick and you need help.
Right Logan won thanks to his combo pack of his power set. Not denying that but to say it's pure skill well is pretty much laughable. I see no reference of Logan ever stalemating the best with his power off. I guess your shit out of luck he he he he he he.
Exactly Logan got owned by Deadpool without a healing factor. Welcome to Shangs world oh thats right Shang does that on a regular bases without a healing factor and he stalemated Wolverine to boot. As explained Shang said he was going to hit him and he did and then had Logan dangling off a cliff.
oh no wait sparrring.......LOL
A regular man would probably be stunned or KOed from that kick. That Shang did caught Logan with. Did you even know that Logan bones are denser then normal. The freak is enhanced? Seriously. Logan won due to his stats/skills and no amounting of you BS will ever change that. No matter how much you cry skill for it.
It really isn't difficult seeing DD in that spot. His record pretty much speaks for itself on his martial arts.
You know and what's funny Logan did own him in the X-men book. I actually don't mind him saying that. Its just that he believes Logan did all that with just pure skill and Logan's enhanced physical stats in strength, speed, durability and him pinning him with his bone claws absolutely played no part in that.
The guy actually thinks Logan is more skilled in the arts then Shang, Daredevil and Ironfist. Logan is skilled for sure but to say if you turned off Logans enhanced stats, take away the adamantium and the bone claws and then last take away his healing factor.
Logan's power set with his fights may just look a bit different in that regard.
I did. Not just DD though. I put Shang, Daredevil, Ironfist, Elektra all above Steve.
Steve is very skilled but most of the time Daredevil and even Ironfist have noted his stats being very impressive. DD himself stated he's faster and stronger then him. Steve is a beast he is a super soldier for sure.
Now here is my ranking for them based on the TS as overall performance and record.
On the TS based on performance thanks to there over-all abilities(not just skill as some posters like to imagine).
Note these are darn close and I could see DD, Elektra, Shang could be switched up depending at what you look into with some of the fights like sneak attacks, holding back, not being into the fight, the context of it all etc etc.
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