Darth Bane, Exar Kun, Kyle Katarn, Kyp Durron, Revan, and Darth Nihilus could give, at least, an extremely hard time to the characters who 'Lucas centered his movies around', and quite possibly even defeat some of them.
Yes, he was stated to be that very same thing, but this is LOTF, which takes place after the statement. Therefore, it doesn't apply.
very good point on the Aurra Sing fight. I guess we could say: he almost lost to Mara too, i forgot to bring that up. In fact, he ALMOST lost every fight he was ever involved in. Defeating Katarn so easily was an abberation, which depended on special circumstances as well. (just as the Aurra Sing fight did)
However, this quote from Inferno should help back up my interpretation of the fight with luke: It is made clear that luke did win, from an omniscient narrator, or Caedus (it probably counts as both)
"Luke had BEATEN him. Luke had just kept coming despite his injuries. He had inflicted more damage on Caedus than he had suffered himself, and he had even escaped teh garrote before Ben struck. In fact, it was probabaly that attack that had saved Caedus's life. Nothing else could have shocked Luke out of his battle rage--only the sight of ben slipping so far to the dark side."
"
And i know you are going to bring up Luke's surprise attack on him, and its a good point, BUT.. wasn't that Jacen's fault? i mean, Ben was right there, telling him that Luke was on the ship, coming for him (pretty stupid of Ben, btw) and Jacen just laughed at him. Plus, the pain inflicted on Jacen, all the way through LOTF, seemed to do nothign but make him stronger, so mebbe we could argue Luke's surprise attack on Caedus actually was an unfair advantage at the beginnnig for caedus.
Yes, but he was a match for "the most powerful sith" (g-cannon) and george lucas never gave a time limit, he didn't say "in star wars history" thereofore, yoda=the most powerful sith, which means the most powerful sith is even more powerful (OMG!!) then caedus.
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And actually considering that it says "had ever [n]seen[/b]"indicates that it is subject to being over ridden by new material. If it said in, say, a guide book that "Yoda is the most powerful enemy the dark side has ever seen. [/b] then it'd be diffiferent, also depends on when the narraration is taking place I guess.
I'm not going to bring up the fact that Luke surprised him. Luke would have won regardless. I just wanted to point out that Aurra would have been tooled if Allana didn't get in the way. Besides for the fact that I'm not even saying that Caedus would win this fight but stands a chance to.
As for the Katarn fight I will like to mention that Caedus wasn't healed from the Luke fight. Though I will say that Caedus can taking a beating and still put up a hell of a fight like no other.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on May 29th, 2008 at 10:27 AM
You're contradicting yourself right there: that is exactly my point, it did not say "in star wars history", hence, it doesn't apply to future eras. If it had said he was a match for "the most powerful Sith in star wars history" then you would be right and I would shut up, but it doesn't.
And no, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he isn't a match for incredibly powerful Sith, I'm just pointing out that any quote similar to those does not apply to any future era.
Anyhow, this is all bunkered down by that fact that Luke Skywalker is the most devastating foe the darkness has ever seen, which proves the quote was only referring to Sith coming before Yoda.
And pure common sense.
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Last edited by Col. Valerian on May 30th, 2008 at 12:07 AM
Yoda was most powerful powerful lightsider to face "the darkness" prior to Luke, that is what the quote means in the end.
The exact quote from the ROTS novel is This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just-didn't-have it.He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.He had lost before he was born.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on May 30th, 2008 at 12:16 AM
I don't really understand that. When I read it, it made sense in context, but is it really saying that he is incapable of winning? or that the jedi in general needed to survive and adapt?
The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.
While the Jedi-The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.
The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark's own weapon?
He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him. Hmmm, Yoda thought. A problem this is . . .
Basically it means that the will of the force was on the sith's side and the jedi were destined to fall.
Caedus=Yoda; is why Caedus was able to give LotF Luke, hell.
__________________ Originally posted by Arhael Okay, look. Um, me feels no agenda to meeting and vacuum in leadership position, so me has composed 12 point plan for good happy success.
I think that one of the reasons Caedus is considered to be such a powerful Sith Lord for his generation is because of his esoteric force abilities and the six year vacation he took to investigate force abilities that are unknown to people of the new jedi order.
Now you have Yoda who is a Jedi Grandmaster whose lived for 800 years which gives him plenty of years to study up on jedi/sith lore...specifically how to counter dangerous sith powers. I highly doubt that Caedus can utilize any of his unknown force abilities without Yoda at least being aware of them.
Even Luke who wasn't fully aware of what Caedus knew was able to stop him with ease.
Yoda?
He takes the force aspect with no trouble.
If Caedus was given more time to develop as a Sith Lord he would have been truly formidable but he wasn't...
Yoda knew Force Absorb - but I highly doubt that he had trained specifically to combat any Sith.
He just knew the ability and had skill with it - but nothing more; hence Sidious still being able to beat him, despite it.
No - not quite so much. I don't know if you've read their fight - but Caedus gave Luke hell, even holding him down temporarily with TK, and being able to go toe-to-toe in sabers with Luke, who was at that point close to being a Force God.
That's why, as Nephthys so astutely put it, Caedus definitely has what it takes to battle Yoda - and defeat the little green Jedi Master, who is far weaker than Luke by comparison.
No. Again, Caedus was able to temporarily hold down LotF Luke, who could crush Yoda into a tiny drop of slime.
Caedus has enough of a unique skill-set and strength to definitely go toe-to-toe and nullify whatever Yoda throws at him - killing Yoda eventually.
Being able to kill Peak Mara Jade, defeat Peak Kyle Katarn and give Force God Luke hell, constitutes as truly formidable.
Certainly just as, or more formidable than Yoda, who he would kill.
May 29th, 2008 02:23 AM
FER TEA!!
