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Savage Opress vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Intrepid37
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They have comparable feats.

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Jun 28th, 2013 05:48 AM

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Lord Stark
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
They have comparable feats.

Kenobi broke his leg and sliced his hand off with Maul as backup. In what dimension do they have comparable feats?

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Jun 28th, 2013 07:42 AM

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Intrepid37
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How 'bout beating Ventress and fighting as an equal with Koon?

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Jun 28th, 2013 07:59 AM

NTJack0
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Obi-Wan takes this handily.

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Jun 28th, 2013 09:51 AM

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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
How 'bout beating Ventress and fighting as an equal with Koon?

Ventress's fighting style is with the use of dual sabers so was at a slight disadvantage in that fight.

Still Ventress and Opress are probably pretty equal. But Kenobi is clearly above them both.

Opress actually beat Koon down in Sith Hunters. But what does that prove in relation to Kenobi?

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Jun 28th, 2013 10:18 AM

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mnat801
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
How 'bout beating Ventress and fighting as an equal with Koon?

Seriously. Do you really see Obi Wan losing any of these scenarios?

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Jun 28th, 2013 11:27 AM

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The_Tempest
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Savage fended off Anakin and Obi-Wan in season 3 and has grown in power since those days according to the Clone Wars episode guide.

Obi-Wan fending off Maul and Savage is as much an outlier as the aforementioned feat.

Otherwise, Savage (and Ventress as well) has proven himself to be Council level material. And contrary to the baseless Obi-Wan fanwank, I've seen no evidence to conclude he's inherently better than the likes of Koon, Fisto, Gallia, et al.

If Obi-Wan has an advantage, it's slight. He will not be owning Savage by an means in a general scenario.

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Jun 28th, 2013 11:42 AM

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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by mnat801
Seriously. Do you really see Obi Wan losing any of these scenarios?

Well he has lost scenario 1 in TCW Season 4 finale. Opress also seemed to overpower Kenobi (who was fighting alongside Anakin) in season 3.

So let's not pretend it's not even possible for Kenobi to ever lose to Opress in any scenario.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Savage fended off Anakin and Obi-Wan in season 3 and has grown in power since those days according to the Clone Wars episode guide.

Obi-Wan fending off Maul and Savage is as much an outlier as the aforementioned feat.

Otherwise, Savage (and Ventress as well) has proven himself to be Council level material. And contrary to the baseless Obi-Wan fanwank, I've seen no evidence to conclude he's inherently better than the likes of Koon, Fisto, Gallia, et al.

If Obi-Wan has an advantage, it's slight. He will not be owning Savage by an means in a general scenario.

I think this might be under rating Kenobi a bit personally. He did seem to be stalemating Maul in their one on one in "Revival" even before his 2 on 1 performance. He wasn't exactly getting stomped by Maul in the season 4 finale either.

I'd personally put Maul and Kenobi approx on par in a sword fight. Putting them both above Opress, Ventress and most council members, based on TCW Season 4 finale and Season 5 showings.

Last edited by Darth Thor on Jun 28th, 2013 at 12:23 PM

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Jun 28th, 2013 12:17 PM

Intrepid37
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Savage fended off Anakin and Obi-Wan in season 3 and has grown in power since those days according to the Clone Wars episode guide.

Obi-Wan fending off Maul and Savage is as much an outlier as the aforementioned feat.

Otherwise, Savage (and Ventress as well) has proven himself to be Council level material. And contrary to the baseless Obi-Wan fanwank, I've seen no evidence to conclude he's inherently better than the likes of Koon, Fisto, Gallia, et al.

If Obi-Wan has an advantage, it's slight. He will not be owning Savage by an means in a general scenario.

Spot on.

The only reason I give Kenobi a slight advantage over the council-members you mentioned is because of his rank as a level-8 duelist and his performances against Maul.

Last edited by Intrepid37 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 02:03 PM

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Jun 28th, 2013 01:59 PM

Lord Stark
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
How 'bout beating Ventress and fighting as an equal with Koon?

Kenobi has bested Ventress as well, and is considered by Windu to be a superior duelist than himself.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Savage fended off Anakin and Obi-Wan in season 3 and has grown in power since those days according to the Clone Wars episode guide.

Obi-Wan fending off Maul and Savage is as much an outlier as the aforementioned feat.

Otherwise, Savage (and Ventress as well) has proven himself to be Council level material. And contrary to the baseless Obi-Wan fanwank, I've seen no evidence to conclude he's inherently better than the likes of Koon, Fisto, Gallia, et al.

If Obi-Wan has an advantage, it's slight. He will not be owning Savage by an means in a general scenario.

Fended off is not the same as disarming someone and breaking their leg. Kenobi did to Maul and Savage what Maul did to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. It'd be like arguing TPM Kenobi or Qui-Gon were superior to TPM Maul. It's a ridiculous notion.

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Jun 28th, 2013 03:38 PM

Intrepid37
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Kenobi has bested Ventress as well,

So what? This doesn't prove that Kenobi will win by a big margin.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
and is considered by Windu to be a superior duelist than himself.

lol

As did he about Billaba.

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Jun 28th, 2013 03:43 PM

Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
So what? This doesn't prove that Kenobi will win by a big margin.

His consistent stalemates against Maul suggests he is above Opress and Ventress by a noticeable margin. At least in sword fighting/close combat.

With Force powers included Opress's chances against Kenobi increase a fair bit. But I'd probably still give Kenobi a slight majority personally.

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Jun 28th, 2013 05:43 PM

ares834
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Obi-Wan. Rather easily.

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Jun 28th, 2013 05:59 PM

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Intrepid37
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
His consistent stalemates against Maul suggests he is above Opress and Ventress by a noticeable margin. At least in sword fighting/close combat.

Concistent stalemate? He survived for half a minute or so before Gallia died. The other one he lost.

You can't overlook how Kenobi has been portrayed as an equal to Ventress, and how Opress has too.

Kenobi definitely has the edge in sheer skill and technique, but Opress makes up for it with strength and raw power.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
With Force powers included Opress's chances against Kenobi increase a fair bit. But I'd probably still give Kenobi a slight majority personally.

In an 'all-out' I'd give Opress a slight 6/10.

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Jun 28th, 2013 06:08 PM

Lord Stark
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Concistent stalemate? He survived for half a minute or so before Gallia died. The other one he lost.

He was beating Maul.

quote:

In an 'all-out' I'd give Opress a slight 6/10.

Then you are lost.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
As did he about Billaba.

Who is well above Savage. Your point?

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Jun 28th, 2013 06:25 PM

ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
In an 'all-out' I'd give Opress a slight 6/10.

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Jun 28th, 2013 06:27 PM

Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Concistent stalemate? He survived for half a minute or so before Gallia died. The other one he lost.

Firstly it was over a miunte, which is quite long by SW standards. Second where are you getting he was just "surviving?" If you read Shadow Conspiracy it's made clear that was quite a tough fight for both combatants.

And by the end, if anyone had the edge it was actually Kenobi with that kick that put Maul on his knees for a second.

The first fight was another stalemate until Maul used Dun Moch to enrage Kenobi putting him off balance. (Brilliant scene).

I am actually a much bigger Maul fan than Kenobi, but there's really no denying that Kenobi and Maul are being shown to be peers now.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
You can't overlook how Kenobi has been portrayed as an equal to Ventress, and how Opress has too.

You also can't overlook how Kenobi has been shown to take it easy on Ventress. "You'll have to do better than that my darling.." is hardly the statement of a guy out for blood.

That bit of flirtation/chemistry between them has always been clear.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Kenobi definitely has the edge in sheer skill and technique, but Opress makes up for it with strength and raw power.

In an 'all-out' I'd give Opress a slight 6/10.

Well we agree an all out will be a split.

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Jun 28th, 2013 06:29 PM

ares834
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How it Opress splitting with Kenobi?

Opress, while impressive at first, has fallen by the wayside. He has got stomped by both Kenobi and Maul.

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Jun 28th, 2013 06:35 PM

Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
How it Opress splitting with Kenobi?

Opress, while impressive at first, has fallen by the wayside. He has got stomped by both Kenobi and Maul.

In a pure sword fight your right.

I'm just giving Opress a minority of wins due to his beastly Tk. He's ragdolled Kenobi in the past and overpowered Adi Gallia with it too.

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Jun 28th, 2013 06:54 PM