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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Darth Traya vs Darth Wyyrlok III


Darth Traya vs Darth Wyyrlok III
Started by: SunRazer

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SunRazer
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Registered: Apr 2015
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Darth Traya vs Darth Wyyrlok III

Fight takes place in the Trayus Core.

1. Sabers

2. Force

3. No holds barred

Standard morals and equipment. Who wins?

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 04:51 AM
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Beniboybling
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Registered: Jul 2014
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Darth Traya in all categories methinks. Reasons:
  • Deep knowledge of lightsaber forms, proficiency with shatterpoint and exceptional agility makes her the overall better duelist.

  • Profound telepathic and overall Sense ability as well as her strong will would likely make her able to resist Wyyrlok's illusions.

  • Her offense Force powers are comparable to that of pre-prime Krayt, who is canonically superior to Wyyrlok as a Force user.


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Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 07:31 AM
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SunRazer
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Her feats in lightsaber combat aren't as impressive as Wyyrlok's, though. Her technical skill is impressive but ultimately Wyyrlok's showings of sheer lightsaber skill exceed hers.

And pre-prime Krayt's TK and Lightning canonically "far outstrip" any other Sith of the era's, which would include Wyyrlok. However, even after being reborn, Krayt's Force Lightnint clearly did not far outstrip Wyyrlok's, so it stands to reason that Wyyrlok grew more powerful since that quote (his journey into the Deep Core and ascension to Dark Lord of the Sith both occurred after that quote was written, as I recall).

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 08:15 AM
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Beniboybling
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What are Wyyrlok's saber feats?

I would think that quotes like that don't have an expiry date, especially considering its made outside of the contexts of the comic, and says "of his era", so I'm not sure we can realistically "date it".

That said he's superior either way, and Traya seems comparable.


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Last edited by Beniboybling on Jul 13th, 2015 at 09:29 AM

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 09:17 AM
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Selenial
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Wyyrlok in the sabers and all out, I'd give Force an even split.


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Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 09:24 AM
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SunRazer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
What are Wyyrlok's saber feats?

I would think that quotes like that don't have an expiry date, especially considering its made outside of the contexts of the comic, and says "of his era", so I'm not sure we can realistically "date it".

That said he's superior either way, and Traya seems comparable.


1. Contending with Reborn Krayt.

2. Right, except we have on-panel proof that shows an even more powerful version of Krayt's Lightning doesn't "far outstrip" Wyyrlok's, which mean Wyyrlok obviously grew more powerful since the quote, and as I said, major events like his ascension to Dark Lord and his journey into the Deep Core give him opportunities to have grown more powerful. It's obvious that he did.

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 09:38 AM
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Beniboybling
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Contending with Reborn Krayt.
Contending? That's being awfully generous.
quote:
Right, except we have on-panel proof that shows an even more powerful version of Krayt's Lightning doesn't "far outstrip" Wyyrlok's, which mean Wyyrlok obviously grew more powerful since the quote, and as I said, major events like his ascension to Dark Lord and his journey into the Deep Core give him opportunities to have grown more powerful. It's obvious that he did.
Yeah but that's not my point, my point is you can't put a timestamp on a quote that isn't made in the contexts of the Legacy timeline, beyond a general reference to the era. Your assuming an equivalence between publishing dates and in-universe dates where none exists.

Your "on-panel proof" doesn't alter that, it just makes the quote unreliable and likely hyperbole.


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Last edited by Beniboybling on Jul 13th, 2015 at 09:50 AM

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 09:47 AM
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Selenial
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Contending? That's being awfully generous.


A lot of the fight was off screen tbh

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 09:52 AM
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Beniboybling
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Selenial
A lot of the fight was off screen tbh
I'm not seeing an indication of that. However it's more the tone of the duel than the duration that's telling IMO.


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Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 09:57 AM
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SunRazer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Contending? That's being awfully generous.Yeah but that's not my point, my point is you can't put a timestamp on a quote that isn't made in the contexts of the Legacy timeline, beyond a general reference to the era. Your assuming an equivalence between publishing dates and in-universe dates where none exists.

Your "on-panel proof" doesn't alter that, it just makes the quote unreliable and likely hyperbole.


1. Not really. Wyyrlok lasted longer and did better than Cade did, considering the differences in Krayt's attitude towards the fights.

2. I'm not giving a "timestamp" to the quote, I'm saying that Wyyrlok has grown more powerful since, and that's a fact.

The publishing date matters because sources have been released since that have altered continuity - that's called a retcon. Otherwise, we're stuck with Insider #62 claiming Vader hadn't fought a Jedi between RotS and ANH, when he did due to sources that came out after Insider #62. The only time a publishing date matters is when there's an explicit contradiction from something that has been released afterwards - and there's a contradiction here indeed, and it's very explicit.

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 10:13 AM
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Nephthys
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Krayt did seem to blitz Wyyrlok at the end tho.


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Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 10:24 AM
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Beniboybling
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Not really. Wyyrlok lasted longer and did better than Cade did, considering the differences in Krayt's attitude towards the fights.
I don't think that's an accurate comparison, considering Krayt "defeated" Cade with Force abilities not lightsaber skill.
quote:
I'm not giving a "timestamp" to the quote, I'm saying that Wyyrlok has grown more powerful since, and that's a fact.
I feel you are and that you just did, you arguing that Wyyrlok has grown more powerful since that statement was published, your treating the statement as if it can be dated and therefore refers to an earlier point in Wyyrlok's continuity, where he was less powerful.

Unless what you mean is that Wyyrlok as a character has been revealed to be more powerful than originally established, but that's different, as it means Krayt never outstripped his power in the first place, that would be as you say a retcon. But that doesn't appear to be what your saying.


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Last edited by Beniboybling on Jul 13th, 2015 at 10:37 AM

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 10:34 AM
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Selenial
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Edit: Nvm


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Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 10:42 AM
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ILS
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That moment when Sel tried to counter Beni's argument and realized she was incapable... shifty


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Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 11:13 AM
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SunRazer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't think that's an accurate comparison, considering Krayt "defeated" Cade with Force abilities not lightsaber skill.I feel you are and that you just did, you arguing that Wyyrlok has grown more powerful since that statement was published, your treating the statement as if it can be dated and therefore refers to an earlier point in Wyyrlok's continuity, where he was less powerful.

Unless what you mean is that Wyyrlok as a character has been revealed to be more powerful than originally established, but that's different, as it means Krayt never outstripped his power in the first place, that would be as you say a retcon. But that doesn't appear to be what your saying.


1. Krayt would've had to beat Cade skilfully first in order to land his hand for the Dark Transfer.

2. Wyyrlok could have well been "revealed" to be more powerful than originally established, since he never showed anything close to full power at any point until his battle with Krayt. His domination of the cultists was said to be with an "iota of his power".

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 12:05 PM
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Beniboybling
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
That moment when Sel tried to counter Beni's argument and realized she was incapable... shifty
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Krayt would've had to beat Cade skilfully first in order to land his hand for the Dark Transfer.
I'm not sure about that, I think he would have had to create an opening, but this wouldn't be the first time someone has landed a physical hit in a duel that hasn't been a killing blow. Just so happens Krayt's touch is deadly.


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Last edited by Beniboybling on Jul 13th, 2015 at 12:54 PM

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 12:39 PM
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Q99
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During his fight with Krayt, Wyyrlok did indicate he'd been hiding some of his power and was greater than Krayt believed.

I think vs Armor Krayt, the outcome would've been in doubt.


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Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 12:42 PM
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Selenial
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
That moment when Sel tried to counter Beni's argument and realized she was incapable... shifty


I was actually countering SunRazer, just realised it kinda hurt my case.

Not my fault if Beni can't see it Happy Dance

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 12:47 PM
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Beniboybling
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Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 12:58 PM
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NewGuy01
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt did seem to blitz Wyyrlok at the end tho.


Like Vos blitzed Sora?

Old Post Jul 13th, 2015 02:56 PM
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