__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Feats are demonstrations of skill and power, made for people who can see and read quite well, yet, are seemingly incapable of thinking or using their imagination.
In this particular case, we could have a nice load of showings for Savage. But then, even without going through the Revan novel, the fact remains that Scourge has killed more than a thousand people that Vitiate judged "too powerful" or "too ambitious" to be left alive. If we go by the people that are still alive in the Sith Empire in the times of SW:ToR, we can conclude that Scourge faced at least some rather dangerous individuals in combat. Hell. From the idea that some of them were "too powerful" according to the judgement of Vitiate leads to the suggestion, that he was fighting some extremely powerful adversaries. And he vanquished them all in a career lasting three centuries.
And if you just think about those numbers for a brief moment and take into account that Scourge, even in the Revan novel, is described as a prodigious talent in terms of lightsaber combat and the force, I wonder how Savage does even register next to that.
Compared to Scourge, Savage is just lightsaber fodder.
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"Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?"
Exactly. I should just imagine up how powerful Scourge must be, because the "load of showings" that Scourge has, like losing 2-v-1 to Nyriss, almost 1-v-1 to an Act II Hero of Tython, and killing a few Imperial Guards, he also killed a thousand randoms over 300 hundred years. And sure, those randoms have no name and showings of their own, and they totally don't exist just to hype the all-powerful-Scourge, but they must clearly be of note, because hey, Vitiate had them assassinated in an unknown manner.
I thought Nai dismissed a number of Palpatine's "most powerful" quotes on the basis that they could refer to political power or some other form of power, not necessarily Force Power. Mind explaining why that suddenly doesn't apply to those nameless unknowns that Vitiate considered "too powerful" for his liking? And for all we know, Vitiate could just be paranoid (which he pretty much is, anyway), so "too powerful" could well be, well, not that powerful at all in the grand scheme of things.
And LOL @ the idea that those unknowns being "too ambitious" somehow makes them impressive kills. Some of Korriban's acolytes are probably more ambitious than some Sith Lords, but that hardly makes them powerful.
We also have no idea how Scourge killed them. It could've well been assassinations the vast majority of the time, or legitimate confrontations. Who knows? Point being that killing some faceless unknowns that exist solely to hype Scourge doesn't fodderize other characters of impressive stature, such as Savage Opress. He's beaten powerful beings too, and we have objective, third-person sources claiming that they're some of the most powerful Jedi in all of history. So yeah, Scourge doesn't have any kills which make Savage look like fodder in comparison, and doing the same thing over and over for three centuries isn't a feat in of itself. Sure, Scourge is more experienced, but apart from that and his natural ability to engorge himself on others' emotions, he doesn't have any advantages here.
Last edited by SunRazer on Oct 17th, 2015 at 11:59 PM
LMFAO. Don't know why the point was so difficult to get. Ambition means the square root of jack shit in terms of power. I could aspire to be the Prime Minister, but with no political experience, presence or followers, I'm not a genuine threat to him, and I have no chance of becoming the Prime Minister (for now).
Not that it matters, since Dooku considered Savage a threat as well, and Dooku is more skilled and more powerful than a vast majority of the Dark Council.
LOL @ lowballing a 1300 years old council consisted of Empire's very best based on 1 weak member. Reputation based on nothing? LOL this is the Dark Council, not the common people in the empire.
Considering someone a threat is not the same as outright fearing someone.
In other words, you have nothing to show why being on the Dark Council makes you comparatively superior or even on par with the higher ups of the mythos.
Reputation potentially spread by the Emperor or reputation based on him killing select powerful beings in unidentified (and thus potentially clandestine) ways. So it's not baseless reputation, but hardly beyond Savage either.
As far as objective sources go, I believe it was only stated that the Dark Council was wary of Scourge, which is kind of the same as considering him a threat. Only Sajar outright states the Council was afraid of him, IIRC. And as NewGuy said, the likes of Marr and Jadus seem to be stronger than him and are unlikely to be afraid of him. I'd also expect a number of Nyriss-tier individuals over the years, and whilst Scourge would've grown over the years, I doubt it's by enough of a margin to compensate for the clear disparity shown between him and Nyriss in the novel.
And I know I'll catch flak for this from the TORists, but frankly, Savage is just better than most Dark Councillors anyway.
At his peak, we only see him fight HoT and everytime HoT faced some hyped character, he had no problem defeating them, some way before his prime actually. Yet he only stalemated Scourge. I know HoT isn't that respected in these forums but that's a very impressive showing imo and there is nothing that contradicts with the hype Scourge has. But yeah, he isn't above all the DC members.
@FreshestSlice
Savage is a TCW character where the fights are full of inconsistency. Maul for example, disarms him without any effort after 2-3 strikes but then he goes toe to toe with people who can keep up with Maul. Also, it specifically says, "Even the most powerful members of the Dark Council" so I'm pretty sure Vowrawn is irrelevant here.
@Sunrazer
I'm not saying Scourge is more powerful than every single DC member ever lived and in the novel, Scourge hasn't neared his peak yet. In fact, he was far from it. Not to mention, he didn't just get more experience after the book or reached his natural potential but was also amped by the Emperor which made him an even more deadly combatant. On the contrary, I think its clear that SWTOR Scourge is far above his novel incarnation.
Nah, he left the academy 2 years before the novel so he was still a noob at that point (still got pretty decent feats though). You're comparing that version of Scourge to the one who reached his full potential+got amped+got 300 years of training and killing 1100 force users and still think that the difference isn't big enough for him to surpass Nyriss?
Where did I ever compare that version of Scourge to the game one? And no, he wasn't particularly impressive in the novel. Where's the part that says the Emperor amped him anyway?
In the end, it's down to feats, where Nyriss is just Scourge's superior. 300 years of training and experience doesn't change that. Killing numerous unknowns doesn't change that either. Show me what implies SWTOR Scourge is capable of doing what Nyriss did to novel Scourge and Surik at same time. Because he wasn't able to beat the HoT, who, as of Act II, I frankly don't see doing what Nyriss did.
And none of this shows that Scourge would fodderize Savage, either.
You're being stupid. If someone's ambitions warrant attention from Vitiate then they'd obviously have to represent an actual threat. You can aspire to be Prime Minister and no one would give a flying shit about it because you don't stand a chance in hell. If, however, you had large public support and were an serious political force then you would stand a chance and your ambition would need to be curbed. That would necessitate that you actually had political power. Just like for Vitiate to care about someone ambitions, they'd have to actually be a force to be recognised as significant.
This is ridiculous. If Vitaite needed to fake Scourge a reputation then there's no reason he'd bother with him in the first place. He'd kill him and get a stronger enforcer. Also Scourge doesn't operate in a clandestine manner. He's a heavy armor warrior, not a steal assassin. When he goes to kill Sajar he walks up to a Republic base with the intent of killing everyone present in the open.
Scourge isn't inferior to Marr. Jadus and Nox are clearly exceptional as well.
Vowrawn is the exception. He makes up for his lack of personal ability with political and manipulative genius and by surrounding himself with bodyguards. Numerous sources state that the position of the Dark Council requires one to face immense hardship and only the most powerful Sith last very long at all. In fact, contrary to your assertion, it's directly stated that the Sith on the council are among the most powerful Sith in the Empire.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Oct 18th, 2015 at 12:27 PM
Oct 17th, 2015 08:23 AM
