I'm ignoring the Vader being 80% of Sidious quote because not only does that make this ranking system more difficult, but that quote is outdated and I believe the new canon has made Vader a more elite force user
ROTJ Sidious-100
ROTS Sidious-95
Yoda-90/95
Vader-90
Mace Windu-80/85
Count Dooku-80
Anakin-80
Galen Marek-75/80
Obi Wan-75
Darth Maul-70/75
I'm not sure about ROTJ Luke, probably around 75
I strongly disagree. Yoda is not equal to Vader. He is significantly superior in the force. The gap between ROTS Sidious and Vader should be higher too. Sidious easily sent Maul & Savage flying and ragdolled Dooku from quite afar. Vader is really not that close to achieving these feats.
Maul probably should at least be equal to Kenobi here, and Anakin's achieved raw power varies a lot so it's hard to place him somewhere specific.
WARNING - this is only about Force mastery/power/skill. No combat stuff.
The Father - 250
Abeloth - 190
The Son / The Daughter - 180
Valkorion - 150
Luke Skywalker - 110
DE Palpatine - 105
Revan - 100
Yoda - 95
RoT Bane - 95
Arcann - 94
Darth Malgus - 90
Darth Jadus - 90
Darth Plagueis - 85
Darth Caedus - 82
Kyp Durron - 82
Starkiller - 80
Scourge - 75
Darth Vader - 74
Exar Kun - 73
DoE Bane - 70
__________________
They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."
I suppose the Vader = 80% Emperor benchmark is a good way to tabulate the rest of the data, even if it seems silly to base so much from a sort of offhand remark Lucas probably didn't think about very carefully. Regardless, it's still a better deal than complete arbitrariness. We have a few rules to play with, overall:
1. Vader = 80% RotJ Sidious.
2. TPM Sidious > all prior Sith
3. RotS Yoda > all prior Jedi
4. Vitiate > all prior Sith
5. Exar Kun > all prior Sith
6. Vader vs. Sidious tells us that relatively small power disparities mean a lot (imagine someone 10% faster than Usain Bolt...)
So we can get an idea of Vader's performance against the Emperor, and scale from there. Points 2 and 3 probably provide us with the best hope of scaling people from different eras.
Yeah, that's a good point, and it makes sense if you think about it - most differences in ability between professional athletes are intuitively tiny, but make an enormous difference at that level (imagine trying to fight a guy twice as big as you, or who can move twice as fast, etc.).
I think 80% of the most powerful sith lord in history is a pretty elite number, actually.
Galen Marek should be above Obi Wan and Anakin in raw Force power, as should Dooku and Windu. Vader certainly is not on Yoda's level if you look at their sature relative to Palpatine.
Honestly, that's the only part that disturbed me though that's not what Freshest was talking about I'm sure.
Idk, if Vader is 80 and ROTJ Sidious 100, I didn't know where else to place TPM Sidious and ROTS Sidious anywhere other than 85 and 90, mostly because of the length of the time period between these incarnations of Sidious. And Plagueis automatically fell under 85 too. How would you have done it?
I think ROTS Sidious can be 100 which would solve the problems with my list.
Not necessarily. Sidious's growth in power probably hits diminishing returns, so I could see RotS Sidious being a 95 and TPM Sidious being a 90. Plagueis vs. TPM Sidious is pretty up in the air, so he could be an 89 or 88. It seems like even the jump from 95 to 100 would be non-trivial anyway; that's roughly a 5% difference, which would be massive in, say, track and field - the jump from Vader to Sidious is enough to make a battle between them a curbstomp.
If the Banite sith are growing steadily more powerful over the ages, it's likely that Bane is a pretty small fraction of Palpatine.
I disagree, Yoda is for sure more powerful in the force, but not by much. Keep in mind that the new canon has significantly increased Vader's power.
I do agree that Maul and Obi Wan are basically equals, I just gave the slight edge to Obi Wan
Last edited by Rebel95 on Apr 14th, 2016 at 11:32 PM
Apr 8th, 2016 09:11 PM
