Before you grab your pitchforks, Ancient Power said she's considering putting Nihilus as the most powerful sith, so I'm wondering what everyone thinks of this.
You can choose between versions of Palpatine if you think it affects the outcome.
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Palpatine's ability to obliterate the Imperial Palace and bury the Lusankya are indeed beyond Nihilus' resurrection of the Ravager and the surrounding fleet. Beyond a feats-only approach, Sidious is factually more powerful than Nihilus and hardly inept with telekinesis. He's better than Nihilus.
And yes, I am thinking of Byss. Nihilus drained a million Miraluka and less than a hundred Jedi. Palpatine drained about twenty billion beings on Byss. Sure, it wasn't instant death, but he was constantly siphoning off them, and it was more or less a permanent thing, requiring hardly a conscious effort on his part throughout his life as the Emperor. That cancels out.
Not only is that an exaggeration of what he says, but it's only his supposition and megalomaniac thoughts. Not solid enough to be counted as a feat. The other one isn't a TK feat. And ABC logic doesn't work, even if Palps is more powerful, that isn't proof his every ability is superior. Try again.
Byss isn't combat-applicable. He did it in unknown conditions, in an unknown timeframe using an unknown method. Give him 20 years and whatever he needs and I'd agree that his drain is impressive (though still inferior). He may then be able to lightly sap Nihilus' life force while Nihilus psychically rapes him. As it is, it's an entirely useless thing to bring up. Give me an example of him using drain in a way that can actually be relevant to the thread please.
Considering that he was pretty much restraining himself from actually doing it, yeah, I think it's legit. Cracking the foundations of the Imperial Palace is still much better than resurrecting the Ravager.
Dismissing it on arbitrary whims isn't sufficient when we know vastly inferior beings can easily call down huge buildings as well. Palpatine effortlessly called down mansion ceilings in 52 BBY, and his powers grew tenfold up to 32 BBY alone. This is DE Sidious. Not hard to imagine it at all. Not to mention Insider #88 claiming that the Emperor could crush buildings with the Force, with said buildings being described as "puny".
And it at least shifts the burden of proof on you to disprove such a notion. You can't just dismiss it because you don't like it.
It is.
It is when Sidious has shown greater mastery of telekinesis than Nihilus has. Try again.
Oh, and Nihilus' Katarr devastation is combat-applicable? Please. He had ample time to Drain Telos, yet he didn't. It's obviously not something he can do on a whim and something that requires preparation of a sort. Not to mention him feeding off power throughout the Ravager even as he does so. He couldn't enact Drain on the Exile until he incapacitated her. He couldn't enact Drain on Traya until he TK'd her. You expect me to believe that he would consume Sidious instantly? Hilarious.
Show me Nihilus psychically raping Sidious-tier characters. He couldn't even kill Traya, and Traya asserts that he hasn't reached the point where he can consume anything that lives. The burden of proof is on you to show me Nihilus instantly raping Sidious-tier characters. Anything else constitutes a no-limits fallacy on your part.
Last edited by SunRazer on Oct 31st, 2016 at 11:00 AM
Doesn't prove anything. Dooku thought he could easily beat Anakin and Obi-Wan in RotS. Did he??? Sidious thought he couldn't possibly lose the Battle of Endor. How did that turn out??? A characters delusional thoughts mean nothing. And no, resurrecting the Ravager is a far better feat than shattering some foundations to an unknown extent. Not that Sidious, you know, actually did that at all.
The Imperial Palace is a thousand times larger than some shitty mansion ceiling, so you're a mite shy of the mark there. And trying to power scale off others is hilarious. Please, provide a clear A>B>C argument for this bit of supposition. It should be amusing to read. And is Sidious being capable of destroying some random buildings supposed to impress me? I guess I'll deign to admit that he's on par with a random TOR Jedi who got clowned by Malgus in that case.
I'm not dismissing anything, because literally nothing happened for me to dismiss. Perhaps you'd like to discuss Sidious' dreams next? I'm sure they're illuminating.
'fraid not. Even if one were to take the asinine position that he had to have done it himself, despite that that cannot betaken as such, it doesn't say that he did so with TK. He could have simply mind-controlled the workers who performed the feat themselves physically. This would align with the other quote which says that Imperial Engineer's buried it and thus eliminate any contradiction and fulfill the requirements of all the descriptions. Case closed.
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Heck, he could have just manipulated the controls, lmao. There goes another "feat".
So you're moving this back onto feats, huh? Concession accepted I guess.
Please. Traya already proved that you can use it in combat at a moments notice. Nihilus only needs to lift his hand to do it, as with any normal attack, just like she did. The technique is simple enough to be performed unconsciously if need be. There's no requirement for the targets to be incapacitated. There's no evidence that he couldn't do it in the situations you mentioned, don't try to bullshit me. Hell, Unseen, Unheard says that he drained Katarr merely by speaking, indicating the ease at which it was performed. He didn't immediately drain Telos because he was confused about where the Jedi were.
He destroyed an entire planet of force sensitives and nearly a hundred Jedi. Sidious' resistance feats (which he, uh, doesn't have) don't surpass that showing. The burden is on you to prove that he can resist the attack, despite having no feats suggesting he can do so and the attack being blatantly stated to have no defense.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Oct 31st, 2016 at 11:36 AM
You'd be right if these were delusional thoughts. But Sidious was stopping himself from doing it. He obviously could.
Random PT Jedi can bench press Star Destroyers
And yet you're willing to take Colonel Tobin's statements at face value. Perhaps you'd like to discuss the double standards here next?
You didn't close a case because you put up a bunch of unsupported hypotheses.
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Concession to what? I'm playing both feats and accolades since both are in favor of Palpatine's. There's no avenue for Nihilus.
By striking first against the Council after talking for a period of time?
The attack can be performed subconsciously - but not at that level.
That's an appeal to ignorance.
Nihilus has no reason to incapacitate anyone if he could just Drain them instantly. He doesn't have to worry about their story or anything. If he could, he'd just Drain them to death instantly.
That was actually Visas' perspective, and given that she was basically brainwashed by Nihilus, I'm in doubt of that. Especially since TCSWE claims that he only drained worlds that he "blasted into ruin", and he wasn't able to drain Telos since he never blasted it into ruin. So it seems that he needs to do that first.
He doesn't need to know where they are, lol. He can just wipe everything on the planet by speaking, if you're taking Unseen, Unheard literally. And he didn't.
Surpass the resistance of unsuspecting and thus defenseless Jedi and Miraluka? I don't know, my pinky might be able to do that.
That there's no defense doesn't mean that it instantly kills anything, or that it can't be resisted. Even Visas Marr was able to resist it to a degree. I think one can hypothesize that a more powerful being could resist it as well, similar to the way Exar Kun resisted Odan-Urr's Sever Force, simply because the power requires the severing of Force connections to begin with, and as per my example of Kun and Odan-Urr, that isn't possible against stronger beings (certainly not against much stronger beings). Also, Kreia's statements aren't gospel. I take it, but it's not incontrovertible - she isn't omniscient.
After all, according to her, Nihilus hasn't reached the stage where he can consume anything that lives, which you failed to address.
It's Visas that blathers about it, but its just an extension of what she saw happen on Katarr and presumably other worlds, and only though making assumptions can we conclude on the extent or means of the destruction.
Oct 31st, 2016 04:53 AM
Traya already proved that you can use it in combat at a moments notice. Nihilus only needs to lift his hand to do it, as with any normal attack, just like she did. The technique is simple enough to be performed unconsciously if need be. There's no requirement for the targets to be incapacitated. There's no evidence that he couldn't do it in the situations you mentioned, don't try to bullshit me. Hell, Unseen, Unheard says that he drained Katarr merely by speaking, indicating the ease at which it was performed. He didn't immediately drain Telos because he was confused about where the Jedi were. 
