I believe that Mace Windu's performance against Palpatine is a one-off, not indication of his base capability in all situations.
Sometimes mindset makes hell of a difference.
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The Outlander (prime) > Revan and a peer of Vaylin. And an expert duelist on top of that. Too much power and skill for Windu to deal with and no Dark Side emotions for Windu to capitalize on.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 26th, 2017 at 08:30 AM
His ability to compete with the Emperor is not circumstantial. That he could duel Sidious to a standstill before winning via Shatterpoint is, but he doesn't need to do that to beat the Outlander.
Could be he didn't go all out with her? After all didn't the Jedi wanna capture her? I mean you can't say that Mace is gonna do his best against a barely trained duelist like he did against a sith lord that took down the best of the best tbh
Because she's that good? And it's TCW. The Legends argument for Mace is partly predicated on the notion that he improves during RotS as well. Secondly, the RotS novel states that Mace was "cutting loose" and going all-out with Vaapad, "drawing deeper on it than he ever had" when he was fighting Sidious. So he was both pre-prime and not going all-out against Talzin.
Yeah, being able to compete with Sidious by virtue of fiat, is more than enough to suggest that he can beat the Outlander.
Even if there was no excuse for the Talzin fight, it wouldn't matter. Word of God holds true; Mace can contend with Sidious. It wouldn't be the first time Filoni has gone off with his own interpretation of characters (ie. Grievous). And no that's void in the face of not only Lucas' word, but also Gillard's word and the vast majority of Legends works which place Mace on the level of Yoda and Sidious.
Last edited by SunRazer on Apr 26th, 2017 at 11:57 AM
Yep, with circumstances. And again, Mace was pre-prime and not going all-out, not to mention the case with Talzin does nothing to change the fact that Mace is able to compete with Sidious. Even if I had no excuse for the fight, it'd be nothing more than a low showing like him failing to lift small transports in Shatterpoint. Word of God and the vast majority of Legends sources tell us that Mace is on Yoda/Palpatine's level. You're in denial.
Your only possible argument is that this may be morals on Mace, who won't go all-out. But if sufficiently pressed, he could well do so.
Last edited by SunRazer on Apr 26th, 2017 at 12:02 PM
It was a standstill as a product of circumstances. Mace being able to compete with Sidious (which doesn't mean fighting to a standstill) is not at all related to those circumstances.
Last edited by SunRazer on Apr 26th, 2017 at 12:05 PM
He's completely able to fight Palpatine within the context of the films where Vaapad isn't a thing. He's placed by several souces on Yoda's level, and Gillard has him as a 9 or at least on the border, which means he can compete with Sidious (Dooku, just an 8, has contended with Yoda).
Irrelevant given Legends is presumably in play here. But regardless you're wrong, we've already discussed in the past that you cannot assume Vaapad does not exist in Canon on an absence of evidence. On the other hand Gillard describes Windu as achieving 9 because he "cheats" by using the dark side i.e. Vaapad, and Lucas approved of Vaapad and how it functioned in the novel.
I said in the context of the films, not canon as a whole. Regardless, Mace being on the border still allows him to compete, and again, a number of sources hold him to Yoda's level. Lucas himself claims that Mace is capable of competing.
Suggesting he can't fight Palpatine at all is pretty ludicrous.
Right, Film Only continuity. Call it whatever you like its not in play here, and we don't know whether Vaapad was a factor.
And its not ridiculous at all when we consider that sources have described Palpatine as blitzing the B-Team before he even realised what was happening.
Which is factually wrong per both the film and novel, lmfao. It's hyperbole for him being shocked at how quickly Palpatine cut them down.
Or do you actually think Mace was moving around and parrying strikes from Sheev without realizing it was happening?
Your repeated neglections of my points on Mace being held to Yoda's level by a variety of Legends sources as well as bordering on 9 per Gillard and being able to compete with Sheev per Lucas seem to be particularly telling. You can't argue against facts.
Last edited by SunRazer on Apr 26th, 2017 at 12:30 PM
Apr 26th, 2017 07:51 AM
