Yeah, I noticed all those things. However, in this instance we must use the facts that have been pured out in front of us.
Yeah, he beat suited Vader, which is exactly what I said. As for where it says Luke is stronger than Vader, well, for one thing I saw ROTJ. For another thing in this thread everbody said Luke.
All right, you got me. Was hoping no one caught that one weak point. The Shatterpoint of my arguement. He also says he is strong enough to take out Sidious, which isn't an accurate measure of his abilities, either.
Okay, new argeument that should put this debate under the belt, but first I must ask Janus and anyone else who wishes to answer a question: In AOTC is Yoda at least twice as strong as Anakin?
Yoda is more than three times stronger than Anakin. Yoda could take Dooku after a good fight, and look at how Dooku wasted Obi-wan and Anakin in AOTC without really trying to hard.
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Registered: Feb 2005
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If by twice as strong you mean is Yoda twice as good as Anakin, that's a hard question to answer exactly.
Why? Well, trying to get an exact number (like 200 % of something) is hard as hell to do in a world outside of a science lab.
But looking at AOTC, we see Yoda counter Dooku's Force attacks, something which neither Obi-Wan nor Anakin could do even as of ROTS. In particular, Yoda blocks the Sith lightning with his hand. He is the only person on the jedi side who can do this.
In blade combat, Yoda fares much better than Anakin and Obi-Wan. Essentially, he goes toe to toe with Dooku using one blade and is more successful than Anakin with two blades. I'm not even 100% convinced Yoda was trying to disarm or kill Dooku either. In any case, Yoda as of AOTC is MUCH better than Anakin. However, by ROTS, Anakin has gotten considerably better while Yoda hasn't changed much, but Yoda is still way beyond Anakin at this stage. So it seems pretty evident that AOTC Anakin is quite a bit below Yoda's level.
All right, since Admiral Akbar said two or three times as powerful and so did Darth_Glentract (although he always said Luke) I'll go ahead and prove my point.
George Lucas says in ROTJ Luke is 1/2 trained. He also says Luke becomes the strongest jedi, even stronger than Yoda. That means if Yoda is over twice as strong as Anakin (AOTC) then so is fully trained Luke. So FT (fully trained) Luke = AOTC Anakin X 2+, meaning 1/2 FT Luke (ROTJ Luke) is more powerful than AOTC Anakin.
Registered: Feb 2005
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Huh. Okay.
- Where does Lucas say that ROTJ Luke is half trained? Is this in reference to being a jedi, or overall trained? What does this make? Does this affect force mastery, potential, etc?
- When did Lucas say ROTJ Luke is better than Yoda? How could this be? If he was better than Yoda, why was he writhing on the ground suffering under Sidious' lightning? Even for a GL quote, this doesn't make sense enough to believe. Source?
- You saw the movies. How can you say with any degree of confidence that Anakin was inferior to Luke?
I said Yoda is MORE than three times stronger than AOTC Anakin. Still, it would show your point if you could back it up with other things, like quotes and references.
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1. In the ROTJ AC. A 1/2 trained Jedi.
2. I heard he said it in some interview. And this is NJO Luke, not ROTJ Luke.
3. You saw my proof, proof coming from Lucas himself.
Registered: Feb 2005
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1. Half-trained jedi by ROTJ doesn't explain how he can beat Anakin in this thread.
2. Cite please if you're gonna hold a stance with some interview, somewhere, sometime. And this thread is not about NJO Luke, so let's not waste our time there. I highly doubt that GL outlined and made NJO Luke, considering what a ridiculous pile of BS he has become.
3. What proof? I don't see a thing; just you posting and apparently not proving how ROTJ Luke can defeat Anakin.
Half trained does make sense. So does me mentioning NJO Luke. I heard on starwars.com Lucas said Luke was the strongest jedi and a few other sites too. So full trained Luke > Yoda meaning 1/2 trained Luke/ROTJ Luke X 2 ? Yoda. So if you think AOTC Anakin could beat ROTJ Luke you think Yoda is less than twice as powerful as AOTC Anakin. It makes perfect sense.
Luke may be, cannonically, one of the most powerful Jedi, he actually MAY be.......he just SHOULDN'T be.......his whole story of coming to the power he has in NJO isn't the greatest story of hardcore Jedi Training.
It's better to keep the semi-demi-god Jedi in the past, when the Sith and Dark Side were much more rampant and powerful than post-Imperial Regime.
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Registered: Feb 2005
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NJO Luke > Yoda
1/2 Trained Luke (as a jedi, not total) x 2 = Yoda?
AOTC Anakin > ROTJ (1/2 trained) Luke
therefore Yoda< 2 x AOTC Anakin?
WTF?
First off, using numbers like this is ridiculous, because this isn't an exact science. They don't have stats, and there are so many variables it's unreal.
Second, anyone on KMC or another site saying that Yoda is twice or three times as powerful compared to AOTC Anakin isn't a reliable canon source. Not even a good beginning for inferences.
And third, the phrase is half trained jedi, not halfway to NJO. If anything, the Jedi Academy series is halfway to NJO, not ROTJ. So trying to say that ROTJ Luke is half as good as NJO Luke is seriously off base. Point being, AOTC Anakin is better than ROTJ Luke. It's simple; watch the movies. AOTC Anakin fought hordes of Geonosians, survived a firefight in the middle of an open arena, slaughtered an entire Tusken Raider village, and even held his own against Dooku for longer than Obi-Wan did. ROTJ Luke barely took on the crew of Jabba's sailbarge.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Dooku was toying with him?
Meh, no matter which way you spin that fight even, the point remains that Anakin is much more capable than ROTJ Luke. And if the movie isn't good enough, read The Approaching Storm.
Sep 16th, 2005 11:50 PM
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