Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
That's neutrality EU BS; the jedi (read: force users who abide by the jedi code, not the overrated cheap knockoffs in video games or NJO novels) should never use Sith lightning, because it is inherently an aggressive and evil power, meant to kill and hurt, not to defend or aid.
Sometimes it's necessary. If you were dueling someone, and knew that should they live, they would cause incredible havoc and death in the galaxy, and you had an opening to kill them, would you take it?
Right. But as Terry Pratchet says in Thud! if you torture a enemy for good reasons it will just lead to bad reasons. This is why I agree with Kreia that the death of the Force would be a good thing. No more Sith Lords or snooty Jedi, just ordinary people who have to really on thier skills like the rest of us.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Firstly, Jedi are discouraged to decapitate or bisect enemies. They -are- encouraged to disarm enemies to disable them but leave them alive andable to walk.
Second, a knife is a knife. And if you use it to kill or hurt, you are not acting in accord with the jedi code, period.
Third, guns -shouldn't- be used in an ideal world to defend people unless they are completely nonlethal. But real cops are horrible shots and average people with no in-depth knowledge of ethics and reasoning.
Fourth, it may seem neccessary to hurt or kill people, but that doesn't make it morally right.
Final point being, Jedi can physically use sith lightning, but no jedi who abides by the code ever would, period.
Janus is right. Jedi aren't supposed to use force lightning. They aren't supposed to cut off someone's head. But they aren't supposed to sit on their arse's and die and then let some Sith take over tha galaxy. NJO Jedi aren't Jedi in the PT sense. They follow the view called the Unifying Force instead of the Living Force.
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I'm not sure a Jedi could use Force lightning. My theory is that Force lightning is just a Force push, i.e. pushing electrons together. The ability to see electrons is an unnatural power, a power that only a sith lord could have.
__________________ "I realised that there was this incredibly benevolent force that wanted me to know that there was no reason to be afraid... ever." "We don't have to win, we just have to fight."
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." "Be yourself. Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
So you don't think that healing yourself in minutes in weird? What about being able to make things spontaneously combust? Jedi have strange powers too.
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The Force is pure energy, but ceartain powers, after going through your cells and being, become either peverse concentrated forms of evil, or light atoning bodies of light.
Force Lightning is not in itself evil, but when you manifest the power, it converts to evil, it ignites the ceartain frequincies in your brain that would promote malice and malevolance. So when you manifest Force Lightning, you draw yourself closer to the darkside..
ALTERNATIVELY: There is light/darksides to The Force. Both co-exsist simutanously like ying/yang. And to use Force Lightning is to use more yang or "dark" power. Thus, you are more actively pursuing the path to the darkside.
__________________ Smile, tommorow is going to be worse..
Last edited by Spelljammer on Sep 27th, 2005 at 02:15 AM
__________________ "I realised that there was this incredibly benevolent force that wanted me to know that there was no reason to be afraid... ever." "We don't have to win, we just have to fight."
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." "Be yourself. Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
Welcome to one of the inconsistencies with Star Wars.
See, the big reasoning was that using the Force directly to harm is a "dark side" thing. But then why do jedi get away with pushing and pulling? That can cause harm. It could even cause serious injury or death, as people break bones and even die all of the time from falls. And why is it okay to shove someone around but not to squeeze (choke)? You might actually cause less damage with a light, controlled Force "chokehold" than by throwing someone bodily to the ground.
It doesn't make sense precisely because it's poorly conceived. And that's even WITHOUT getting into the inherently violent and destructive nature of lightsabers. Why don't jedi use stun weapons instead, if they're TRULY not pursuing violence and destruction?
All of this is, further, without getting into the frightening nature of the Jedi Code itself. I'd love to see someone who actually followed it to a T. "There is no emotion"? Well now, where would that ACTUALLY lead? With truly no emotion whatsoever, how could you have compassion? How could you care about choosing "right" over "wrong"? How could any person's life mean anything in particular to you?
I don't want to meet the person who has truly managed to dispense with emotion, thanks.
This is why I try to just shut off my brain when I'm dealing with Star Wars. This isn't the Matrix -- it isn't well-thought out philosophy. It's just a cheesy western in space with laser swords.
__________________ "he could......if he needed too....hed juss make up lies about how one was talkin smack bout the other and then they would fight, and after they foughtit out....he would suck the other weakened one into a blackhole." - King KAN explaining how Batman could defeat Thanos and Galactus
Actually if Jedi wanted to prusue peace they probably would've been better off using the phasers from Star Wars.. when need be the could set the phasers to a higher level, but normaly they'd just put them on "stun".
Sith could use lightsabers.
Jedi could use phasers.
It'd be a kickass battle of guns versus swords taken to new heights..
__________________ Smile, tommorow is going to be worse..
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
The basic logic here- that the Force as a weapon is just a tool and no more innately evil than, say, a Lightsabre- is very true and is certainly a good reason why there is no reason Jedi cannot Grip, which is only telekinesis after all.
However, there is a theory that Lightning is only possible if you focus your hatred and so forth. In which case, tool or otherwise, Jedi simply wouldn't do it- not because the Lightning itself is evil, but because the means to create it is.
Of course, we have absolutely no indication of any of this in the films, so I stick to the simple version. As we have seen powerful good guys and powerful bad guys, but ONLY powerful bad guys have ever used Lightning...
... therefore it seems reasonable to conclude that good guys cannot use it.
I don't actually see an SW inconsistency, Orestes, though to be sure with things like that Code the EU has complicated the issue.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Well ... in the D20 game, at least, using Force Grip nets you a Dark side point. What's more, I can't recall -- in the movies, at least -- any Light sider ever using it.
I've given this issue a lot of thought, actually. After a long period of consideration, I came to the conclusion that no matter how you rationalize what is and isn't "Dark," something always fails to fit. And yes, I already thought of the idea that lightning itself is inherently evil. That still doesn't reconcile the grip vs. push issue, which is the really thorny one.
If anyone can think of a way to make it all make sense, hey, please hit me with it. I'd love that.
__________________ "he could......if he needed too....hed juss make up lies about how one was talkin smack bout the other and then they would fight, and after they foughtit out....he would suck the other weakened one into a blackhole." - King KAN explaining how Batman could defeat Thanos and Galactus
Sep 27th, 2005 12:25 AM
http://darthglentract.tripod.com/index.html Go Jawa's!!
