If I have to, Planet, I'll do extensive research in compiling a major fact sheet for Sidious in terms of achievements and powers as far as his strength in the Force is concerned.
I can guarentee you that his list will put Bane's in a deep shadow.
Has this been confirmed? Where, and by what source?
Also, you have to remember:
a.) Is the Sith'ari created by the Force itself?
b.) Is the Sith'ari as great as the Chosen One? Last I checked, the Chosen One eradicated all of Bane's - and Sidious's - work.
Lol, Luke did greater things at a younger age than Anakin, and there's nothing to indicate that Luke has Anakin's exact potential, and he's not the Chosen One. Point?
You haven't the means to sufficiently argue it. That is the underlying point.
Is that right? Well, personally, I haven't known Lightsnake to lie to me. But we'll find out.
This speaks that his depth in the dark side and strength in it seems to supercede that of any Sith before him. Sidious's raw power was so intense that it was killing him. In terms of achievements? Sidious is the greatest Sith Lord ever. But, I am arguing martial power, and this seems to support it.
By a hell of a lot. Destroying a fleet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroying a dilapidated temple.
I disagree. Again, I can compile a list of crap on Palpatine if need be. It will take time, though.
Looking forward to it. But remember, this is potential, and there is still much of Bane's story to be explored. There is also much more source material on Sidious, so he's bound to have achieved more martial feats.
Not confirmed, but PoD heavily implies it, many of the sith believed Bane to be the one. Bane also is one of the few who applies, and is the strongest candidate.
Prove that being created by the force necessarily makes Anakin the strongest in the force, quantify and substantiate what being created by the force is.
Not as great, but clearly the next best thing. Again, just to remind you, I never denied that Anakin is most likely the strongest in the force, I just believe Bane to be second.
Bullshit! Luke did jack in his early years, he was nothing, he only really becomes powerful by DE.
My point is that the age of a force user, and the amount of training they have had in respect to what they have achieved at that point is a good way to calculate potential.
I do. When I have time, I will post a bunch of feats from PoD (can't be bothered right now, takes too much time to type stuff out of PoD).
Yes, that's right.
Wrong! Here's the exact quote:
'In self-exile for a thousand years, the Sith had not merely been waiting for an appropriate time to reemerge and exact revenge, but for the birth of onestrong enough to embrace the dark side fully and become its dedicated instrument. This was Sidious:powerful enough to hide in plain sight. Powerful enough to instruct his apprentice, Dooku, to expose him, and still remain hidden from the Jedi.'
B1. 'Strong enough to embrace the darkside fully' - quite clearly speaks for his devotion and commitment.
B2. Speaks for his secrecy and guile.
Nothing in that quote speaks for raw power.
There are actually two ways of looking at this, a good way, and a bad way.
G - Sidious' strength in the darkside was so strong that no human body could contain it.
B - Sidious' body wasn't strong enough to contain his strength in the darkside - could be related to control, aging, willpower etc.
However, it's not surprising that you would interpret it in a good way.
Well the force storm is more of a ritual that doesn't speak too greatly for actual power (kinda like Lumiya's force phantoms), and it cannot be used in small scale combat. And Bane's attack was far more powerful than people seem to realise. It demanded so much of Bane's strength (pretty much all of it) that it drained his body for a short while afterwards. The wave of energy was directed at Kas'im, Kas'im put up a shield and blocked it, and redirected a portion of the energy out towards the temple, which collapsed it. So it was the actual redirection of a portion of the energy attack that collapsed the entire temple. The blast full on would have been much more powerful (the fact that Kas'im defended himself against it is partly why I rate him so highly).
There's also the fact that Darth Bane force pulled a moon out of orbit shortly after PoD.
Nothing implies Bane is a prodigy with a saber, what does he do ALL throughout PoD, give himself over to the Dark Side and memorize forms. Oh yeah he's teh greatest. He owns Sirak because he gave himself over to the dark side and was simply stronger then him, what happens when he fights someone who is NOT a student and who uses an actual light saber not a stupid poison sword, he gets his ass beat. In his fist duel with a saber he memorizes Kas'im's forms and movements thats the ONLY reason he was able to keep up with him, then when Kas'im busts out his Jar Kari Bane panics and proceeds to get WTFpwned.
Now, how in the HELL does that make him a prodigy? Since when does beating students as a student then getting WTFpwned all of a sudden make you a saber prodigy?
You're the last person that should tell me what is out of context. And even if Bane WAS the sith'ari(he or Revan could have been), that doesn't mean a damn thing in terms of power. Sidious WAS the darkside. Sidious by TPM was more powerful than Bane, and his power increased.
You're missing the point; you can't argue potential. You are in the dark, trying to feel your way around. Bane's potential is complete speculation and there's nothing to support - nothing - that he has "the second highest potential ever".
If so, lay it out. Otherwise, all you have is your opinion, which is irrelevent to a debate, which is decided by evidence.
Please. Revan could also have been a candidate, as it is his actions which directly influence Bane (much as I hate to admit it), and if it weren't for Revan, it isn't likely that Bane would have been a great Sith Lord. Sidious himself could have also been a candidate, as the dark side was said to have grown stronger under him, he toppled the Jedi, crushed the Republic, and instituted the most powerful military regime in galactic history.
Quantify? Substantiate? Why would I have to? Why don't you quantify and substantiate the bullshit that you're arguing for Bane, and then get back to me?
Anakin was created by the Force. His midichlorian count surpassed the most powerful Jedi before him - Yoda. Revenge of the Sith, Labyrinth of Evil, and Dark Rendezvous all state how great Anakin's potential is. Yoda says that the Force was the strongest with Anakin than it has been in any Jedi. It is also been stated that the Force was as strong in Anakin as it had been in any Jedi who had ever sat on the Council.
You have so much to support that...
No, bullshit to you. He was able to defeat Vader, who is 80% of Sidious. During Dark Empire, he was able to do outrageous shit that surpassed Anakin - except he didn't have the Jedi Order to learn from. His skills are, quite frankly, an example of his intuition and latent talent.
Bingo: Luke > Bane right there.
Looking forward to it.
We'll find out.
[Lex Luthor] WRONG! [/Lex Luthor]
"but for the birth of one strong enough to embrace the dark side fully and become its dedicated instrument."
That speaks for dedication? Rofl. Guess you missed the word "strong". Speaks for power. Not determination or devotion, but skill and power.
As for the other one, are you serious? Powerful. Please. Nute Gunray was secretive and possessed guile. Wouldn't exactly describe him as "powerful".
There are actually two ways of looking at this, a good way, and a bad way.
Yup. And considering his clones suffered the same fate...
"Flesh can't sustain this great power" were his words, I believe.
Bingo. The dark side was eating his body. That just goes to show how strong the dark side was with him. And, you're seriously not going to accuse Sidious - the greatest and most brilliant Sith Lord - of having a lack of willpower.
I hope you're not that desperate.
The logical way, you mean.
Force Storm is ritualistic? Please. He can create it any time he wanted to without an intense amount of effort. Bullshit.
Are you seriously being this dense on purpose? Do you not understand what a prodigy is? Judging at the speed he became as skilled as he did, it's pretty obvious that he was a prodigy. I mean, he became arguably one of the top 5 duelists ever in less than three years. No force user has ever become that good, that quickly. Given that fact, it's pretty safe to say that he was the most prodigious ever.
Sexy, go home! You bring nothing to the debate, all you do is parrot what Lightsnake and Escape say, so please, come up with something new, or please leave.
Bullshit!
"One who has freed themselves from all restrictions has reached perfection, their potential fulfilled. [/b]Perfect strength, perfect power, perfect destiny.[/b] Imagine it."
—Yuthura Ban
Sometime during the early history of the First Sith Empire, the coming of the Sith'ari, an exemplar of the Sith ideal, was foretold. Inspired by the legend of Adas, the Sith'ari was prophesied a perfect being—the ultimate Sith—free of all restrictions who would rise to power to lead the Sith and, according to the legend, destroy them—yet, through their destruction, make them stronger than ever.
It's pretty clear that the sith'ari was the top dog of the sith, and Darth Bane is the most likely candidate.
Source? Oh that's right, you are perfectly able to parrot Lightsnake and Escape, yet don't really know what you're talking about.
Bullshit! We can easily gauge his potential by how powerful he became in such a short amount of time. Don't be silly!
Please, arguments have already been made, it's nice how you ignored my RotS Sidious and PoD Darth Bane comparison.
Neither Revan nor Sidious apply, they didn't destroy the sith, and through their destruction, make them stronger than ever... Bane is the most likely candidate, followed by Anakin.
Please Escape, I don't need to, the stuff I say speaks for itself. You on the other hand are just being vague, you need to quantify and substantiate, please explain how being created by the force would make him the strongest in the force ever.
All in-universe explanations, I see. But really, this doesn't matter. I never argued that Bane > Anakin in potential, because I'd be arguing against canon.
Why thank you!
[qyote]No, bullshit to you. He was able to defeat Vader, who is 80% of Sidious. During Dark Empire,[/quote]
1. He defeated Vader in a lightsaber duel, OT Vader is a weak ass pathetic duelist, he sucked.
2. Vader was holding back.
Defeating weak ass Vader in a duel where he was holding back is nothing special.
And the 80% refers to potential, I never argued that Vader wasn't damn strong with the force, but it's irrelevant here as he was holding back in his battle with Luke, only using his saber abilities, which sucked.
He had at least one jedi holocron to learn from, as well as a few force wielding alien races.
Bullshit! Bane became a top 10 force user in less than three years, Luke only becomes as powerful as the latest Bane we have seen by midway through NJO, and that's with far more experience and training.
Oh yes you are!
Oh we will.
O RLY!!?
Bullshit! 'Strong enough to embrace the darkside'. 'Become it's dedicated instrument'. This speaks only for dedication, strong in this sense means that he actually had what it takes to do what he must for the legacy of the sith and darkside.
If his secrecy and guile was so considerable that he had the ability to dupe the jedi council for years and ensure the destruction of the jedi order, then yes, I would call him powerful, even though he would get wasted like a fly in combat.
Please, Escape! You're looking as this in a very narrow minded fanboyish way. Did it not ever occur to you that his body was simply too old and weak to contain the darkside?
Well it's a large scale attack that can't be used in combat.
'I have learned that Anger and Will, joined together, are the greatest Power.
I have learned to meditate Anger and Will with clarity and precision, and I have learned to open the hidden reservoirs of Dark Side Power.
Anger concentrated by will in the vital center of the body, creates a portal from which vast energies are released - the energies of the Dark Side of the Force.
Standing watch with my mind, in my meditation of anger, I have slain my enemies from great distances, through the Dark Side Power that permeates the galaxy. I have created lightning, and unleashed its destructive fire.
Using this knowledge, I can unleash the Dark Side energies that are all around us, even to shatter the fabric of space itself. In this way, I have created storms.'
how is this even a debate? You have an unintelligent pissant taking up valuable text with his indignant and incoherent lather. It's more of a joke than anything else, but at some point enough is enough.
Dec 9th, 2006 05:33 AM
