What the hell is your problem? I say one freakin thing and you come in here talking BS like you're some sort genius. How about proving Anakin is superior to Obi-wan or Dooku. And on the Dooku/Anakin fight, how about the fact that it was reffered to as a test for Anakin to see how strong he was. You know, whether or not he was strong enough to kill a helpless prisoner.
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Do you mean he had just completely and utterly toyed with and obliterated them? he can't have been very tired, and what about in DR? When Dooku had the terrain advantage?
We also know that the fight would be very, very close.
But it's alot more likely that he ran because he was losing that there was to much at risk, what was at risk? He didn't flee during ROTS when he fought Anakin when just as much was at risk. And he was so intent on fighting a bunch of Jedi and winning the Battle of Boz Pity, why would he suddenly run unless he knew he was going to lose?
Mace also said Depa was better that he was with a blade, which is clearly untrue. Mace is always being humble, what he says cannot be taken as a fact when he is talking about his own power in comparison with someone else's.
And sorry if I sound at all crabby or irritated, I just finished debating with some dorks at TFN so I'm a bit angry because of how stupid they are.
He ran because the jedi wore regrouping, if he prolonged the fight Anakin would have joined Mace and then he would be easily defeated, Obi-Wan would probably stay behind and try to help Asajj Ventress.
Registered: Jan 2007
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didn't Anakin in the novel stat that he actually wanted to kill palpatine and thought himself fully capable of that, Lucas I believe it is, has stated that anakin, while fighting Obi was well above sidious but when he lost his arms and legs and suffered those injuries his abilities dwindled to roughly 80% of palpatine.
A. Sidious had told him to fight them, is he gonna disobey his master now?
B. He really thought he was better than them, he called them "clowns".
How is Depa being a better swordsman than Windu wrong? Can you prove it? Windu lost didn't he? I know he was wounded, but so what? That doesn't mean Depa is worse. Prove it....
Nah, I'm actually glad to debate you, I just finished some over at the games vs, damn, the insults flew around like a freaking tennis ball. Sorry if I seem angry to, not my meaning...
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Sidious did not need to use psychology against mace and yoda because it was not necessary. Against some body like anakin would, because sidious would know anakin is near unstoppable in a "clear state" of mind and thus would know how to change that
I agree, seeing as Sidious knows more about Anakin's secrets than anyone else (save for Padme), he would easily be able to break him. He didn't have such info about either Mace or Yoda...
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I disagree. Count Dooku left strict orders to the Magnaguards to "leave the Jedi to [him]." Now, why would he give that order unless he was absolutely confident of victory? You can't give insight into the character, as Dooku all but admits that Mace possesses the power and capability to kill him, but says that he "won't".
In fact, your whole "cripple the CIS" idea goes down the drain. Did you not read that excerpt? Dooku flat-out says that if Mace killed him today, it wouldn't matter, as he is but "one cog in a giant war machine". The only one who truly matters to the CIS is Sidious - not Dooku - and Dooku knows that well.
Although I agree with most of that, you do have to count that Dooku was afraid for his life. His own life is important to him, I don't think he wanted to take a risk.
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Dooku isn't Sidious, Kamikz. That Dooku willingly put himself in harm's way on multiple occasions without previously ochestrating the situation - his duels with Yoda and other Jedi - contradicts that notion. If he has no fear of putting his life on the line when fighting Yoda, then it has to be the same with Mace - who is weaker than Yoda.
Logical evidence concludes that Dooku left because he doubted he could win.
Dooku thought he was the most powerful jedi when he faced Yoda, Yoda proved him wrong. Other than Yoda and Windu, there is no one capable of killing him in his own mind, and that is true (except for Anakin), so I really doubt he was in as big a risk facing other jedi as in facing Windu.
But I just don't get how we can only assume he escaped cause he thought he would lose, when he might as well could have escaped because he thought he COULD lose....
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Dooku fleeing is just like how Sidious tried to flee from Yoda in ROTS. Sidious ended up beating Yoda even though he tried to flee. The same very well could have happened with Dooku and Mace had Dooku not escaped.
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Dooku had no problem facing off against Yoda (twice), and he had defeated Mace in combat before. Now then, why would he flee from Mace?
Consider: Dooku seemed calm throughout the duel on Boz Pity, he admitted to Mace that his death wouldn't matter, as he was a "cog in giant war machine" (thus proving that only Sidious really mattered to the grand scheme of things), and he strongly implied that Mace was capable of killing him. He didn't say "you can't kill me", but said "you won't."
Last I checked, Sidious only put himself in harm's way when he was confident that he had control over the outcome. He fled from Yoda because he didn't. Dooku chose to stay and fight even after Yoda had repelled all of his Force attacks and maneuvers. That is an obvious sign of courage.
Also: Vaapad's unique properties allow it to turn "the darkness" into a weapon of the light. Count Dooku is a Sith Lord, meaning that he will fall victim to Vaapad's properties just as easily as Sidious did. Mace's skills with Shatterpoint dwarf Dooku's own, and given that Vaapad "is the deadliest form" and "the hardest to master" makes me believe that - overall - it is the most potent.
Dooku hasn't got a single advantage against Mace in lightsaber combat. In Force combat? Of course.
Lastly, Anakin didn't beat Dooku "because the fight was staged".
I have no doubt Mace could beat Dooku in a saber duel, but I do not think that this duel has anything to support that with. I have had the exact same thoughts as Dooku (that is to say IF he believed he would lose) when playing things like Tennis or MGO, but many times I have won in the end, Mace could simply appear to him as superior, or Dooku wouldn't want to risk a loss when he actually could escape.
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Again, Kamikz, he had the option of fleeing when facing an opponent stronger than Mace (Yoda), even after Yoda repelled and repulsed all of his Force attacks. Yet he chose to stay to fight, and the CIS was getting their ass stomped all over Geonosis at the same time.
Good point on why Dooku didn't run in the duel on the Invisible Hand, and yeah, I suppose maybe Dooku ran because the Jedi were re-grouping or because he was losing, I guess it's unknown. But He did say that Mace wouldn't kill him today which seems to signify in my mind that Mace could indeed kill him another die if they fought again. Also, I doubt Dooku would fare as well against Sidious as Mace did and Mace wouldn't lose to Anakin. Oh yeah: "You need to be either Yoda or Mace to compete with the Emperor." - George Lucas
So according to Lucas Dooku would not be able to compete with Sidious.
Im also sure he was confident of victory. He is a hugely arrogant and prideful man whose abilities are nearly unrivalled in the whole galaxy.
However when he actually got into the duel he realised that Mace was a force to be reckoned with and he didnt want to risk his own life for nothing. Mace however didnt care if he died and knew that killing Dooku would be a blow to the CIS and the war.
True I guess. But you cant deny that if Dooku was in fact taken out of the picture the Republic would have elminated a huge threat. It certainly wouldnt stop the war but it would certainly sway it seeing Dooku was the top political figure.
Not that he didnt think he could win, but that Mace also had a chance of victory. He values his own life more than killing Windu.
Rampant, you and Glentract can cry "but Dooku didn't wanna risk his life!" from here to eternity; it doesn't change the fact that Count Dooku has willingly and knowingly put himself in dangerous situations with opponents who exceed him in both power and experience. It's not that he ran out of fear that he "might" lose. It seems to be that he ran out of fear that he would lose.
Count Dooku was the top figure of the CIS, but the true power was with Sidious. The council, Grievous, and Dooku himself were all terrified of Sidious and took their orders from Sidious. Thus, Sidious is the only necessary ingredient to the CIS. Given that Sidious's political machinations and abilities are beyond the scope of Dooku's own, I doubt it would be a crippling blow, given that Sidious was the one who secretly arranged most of the victories and constitutents of the Confederacy anyways.
He knowingly threw himself at Yoda (whom he knows to be stronger than Mace) twice, and he's beaten Mace before. The only logical conclusion is that he fled out of fear that he knew he wouldn't win, not that he "might".
Feb 10th, 2007 02:00 AM
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