Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Explaining Knightfall Vader's Power
It seems many members of KMC remain speculative of Vader's power, perhaps it's mere hyperbole or embellishment, the words of a stunt coordinator. I'm here to prove that it's more than that:
Firstly, let's confirm that Anakin is more powerful than Yoda and Sidious as of Revenge of the Sith:
Even as of Labyrinth of Evil, Anakin is as strong as anybody who'd ever sat on the Jedi Council:
As of Revenge of the Sith Anakin has boundless powers:
After turning to the dark side, Darth Vader became much more powerful. The only character to tap into level 9, higher than Yoda:
To further grasp the massive gap between levels, Obi-Wan Kenobi only went up one level between The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith:
This tier system was personally used by George Lucas:
For those still speculative of the Canonicity of these statements. A similar level system was employed by Lucas during the production of Empire Strikes Back:
He's further confirmed to be unparallelled, the deadliest, as a Sith Lord prior to Mustafar:
Further confirmation that Vader's power was growing even still:
Darth Vader reached a level of power that was purely his own, and beyond anybody else in the galaxy. By the time he was in his prime, he was an entirely higher magnitude of power than Master Yoda, and thus Darth Sidious, was.
It is my belief that neither DE Sheev nor FOTJ Luke managed to achieve that power given that Vader was clearly tapping deeply into his incomparable potential, so much so that neither of his competition could possibly have replicated him in their individual primes.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
A problem with saying that Anakin already is on par with Yoda as early as his "maybe most powerful" quotes start popping up is that as of Sidious's sorcery vision on Yoda, a weaker vision of Sidious (who Yoda was handling easily) can ragdoll Anakin, which Yoda expected him to do.
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But if Anakin was so powerful, his bad performance on Mustafar can't simply be explained away by "he was conflicted, go with it". Both Yoda and Sidious, who Anakin had already supposedly surpassed, would have made short work of Obi-Wan.
There's a contradiction there. Either Anakin was not that powerful, or the difference between "levels" is not that large, and any dog can have his day regardless of how strong he is. It can't be both.
And I honestly can't imagine Yoda or Sidious being matched by anyone else(except each other) in a direct Force push vs push struggle, the way Obi-Wan matched Anakin.
Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites
I'll copy what I said in the other thread:
By feats, KF Vader is the MVP of his time, in terms of pure power at least. Mastery is another thing, which is why I still think he wouldn't beat RotS Palpatine, much less DE lol
If midi-chlorians are really the proof of your Force-strength, what can we say then about Nihilus or Exar Kun?
Nihilus didn't have any midi-chlorians into his robes and armor; yet he was op as f**k.
As about Anakin. It's safe to assume that he was stronger in his Sith, not Jedi personna.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Nihilus is an exception because he's a wound in the force.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
This is not from Gillard's point of view; is from Lucas'. And first, you need to understand why Lucas considers Anakin the most powerful Jedi? Maybe due to his Chosen One status and his destiny to destroy the Sith?
This quote seems to compress only from Darth Bane's era until Anakin's era.
This quote doesn't tell that he is the strongest Jedi. In fact it flatly tells us that his Force strength is equal to the other Jedi from in the Jedi Council.
What are these boundless abilties?
This line is too cryptic. From the context, I get that, he was seduced by the dark side and about the boundless Sith abilities he would come to learn; eventually hastening his fall.
George Lucas canon, remember.
What are with these numbers, anyways? It seems to me that this was Gillard's classification of these, and only these characters alone. And he does not refer to Force strength alone, but to overall characteristics of these characters(their Force strength, their training, etc)
And Gillard even stated that Anakin is not an eight or a nine, but Windu is an eight with Yoda. So Gillard clearly didn't talk about Force strength alone.
Yes, if you take into account their overall Jedi training. No wonder Anakin lost to Obi-Wan on Mustafar.
It takes into context only the movies(with no acknowledge of the EU content)
But, Obi-Wan did improve a lot since Episode 1 and Episode 2 to Episode 3. This is out of the question. He became better at swordsplay.
So, there is nothing about Force strength, but rather about self-discipline, Force Mastery, and swordsplay.
There are so many 'maybes' and a 'probably'.
This is too inconsistent. Who wrote this? It seems to me the person who wrote this wasn't sure what happened there in the making of the movie.
Oh, really?
I am looking at you Nihilus, Sidious, Vitiate/Valkorion. . .
This does not even acknowledge the existence of the EU.
He was the deadliest, because he was the only Sith Lord who had the most screening in the movies.
You describe this statement through Anakin's own narcissistic perception. The reason, he began to feel this, is because he was fallen to the dark side already; and he thought that the dark side will be making him stronger to save Padme from "certain death".
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
What about Valkorion/Vitiate, then?
What about Exar Kun?
Are really the midi-chlorians the proof that your Force strength is based on them? I mean Anakin had the highest count in the movies and yet he couldn't Force-push Obi-Wan and crack his neck; or when he needed Mortis' Force nexus to subdue both of the Force embodiments.
It's either overall lore inconsistency, or midi-chlorians really do not show your Force strength, and this is what Jedi's perception is. Or maybe the other op EU characters have a greater midi-chloriant count?
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 6th, 2018 at 12:30 AM