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Quinlan. One of the only Purge survivors, he stalemated with Windu, he practitioned Vaapad and Makashi and he killed a two-hundred year old sith lord. Not to mention he killed a group full of Lightsaber-wielding Sith witches.
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Luke stood against Vader though. I dont really have an answer for this fight yet, at the moment Im kinda regarding them as equal until I can think of stuff.
Luke takes this. He took Vader who is stated by GL as 80% as powerful as Sidious. Quinlain did not stalemate Mace. They were sparring and then when Vos used some of Vapaad Mace put Vos on his ass in two seconds.
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By the time of ROTJ, vader could not beat luke anymore. as you saw in the beginning of their fight in ROTJ, that luke was winning. and then he shut off his saber and refused to fight his dad, it was luke who was holding back he did not want to kill his dad he wanted to turn him to the good side. Luke could have beaten Vader without even using his force rage. Which completely pawned vader, in fact. This proves that luke's power must have more than doubled since ESB. Luke was doing very well against vader even while luke was holding back. Luke may have been at that point as strong as sidious or very close. And dont bring up that he was fried by emperor because luke threw away his saber and refused to fight, and had his guard down, he didnt expect the force lightning, i dont think any jedi other than yoda would have easily deflected the lightning and faught back without their saber. Mace windu was pretty helpless to when sidious fired his lightning on him just before seconds before mace died. And dont bring up the fact that mace lost his hand, so did luke. and ROTJ sids was even stronger. Luke takes this because vos wasnt as powerful as the emperor. and luke is using his force rage in this. which would allow luke to equal the emperor if not surpass him.
Did Lucas say anything regarding Darth Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke only to lure him? That's what some people on this forum believe. Wasnt Vader attempting to lure Luke to the Dark Side? That explains how Luke nearly turned to the dark
You cannot possibly believe the crap you type on here. The emperor was killing Mace, but was torturing Luke. There is no "Force rage", it's only a video game thing. He only got pissed 'cuz Vader was gonna lure Leia to the dark side. And Mace lost his hand in the very fight with Sids, and yet, Luke has his prosthetic.
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It makes no sense at all that Luke Skywalker, with 8 months of traning could be better than AOTC Anakin, who had more potential than Luke and had studied in 10 years with masters instead of reading instructions at Ben Kenobis place. And Vader is stronger and better than AOTC Anakin, much better.
Darth Vader was most likley wanting to turn Luke to the dark side and used defence instead of offensive (which was his primary style, so he wasent as good on defence). Luke was actually going offensive in the beginning but later realised, after hearing Palpatine, that he didn't and wouldent fight his father.
When Luke was going apeshit on Vader, he left himself open many times where Vader had the possibility to strike like he did in ESB but he didn't. He wanted Luke to turn to the dark side, when finding his weak point and acctually making him use his dark energies, why kill him?
Luke might have broken through his defence but if Vader had gone offensive he would have killed Luke right there. More traning, experience, strenght, skill etc. And Luke was hardly 80% of Palpatines potential there, Obi-Wan defeated Anakin but was hardly more than 80% of Palpatines potential.
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i think your seriously underestimated luke, his power skyrocketed when he went ballistic, vader didnt stand a chance. it was luke who wanted to turn vader to the lightside or did you forget that, that was the reason "he let himself get captured", luke wasnt trying to kill vader at all, but vader was trying to kill luke or did you remember when luke turned off his saber, and vader then attacked luke while his saber was off. now who is the one who is holding back not wanting to kill his family. Luke many times refused to fight vader, and vader did not hesitate striking luke even when luke turned his saber off. seriously watch the movie again. he overpowered vader and did not win by a mere technicality like obi-wan did. big difference. and if a bully at school who is much faster and stronger than you goes all insane on you with a weapon, moving at virtually the speed of light. i doubt you would be trying to look for an opening or even thinking about it, like most sane people you would be running for your life.
Stop telling me to watch the movie again or having my facts messed up, I never said anything like that about you.
Luke not wanting to kill Vader? Who was attacking all the time, Luke. Who was defending all the time, Vader.
Vader was provoking Luke all the time, he wanted him to use the dark side, that was the whole idea, if he wanted to kill him he would have done it at ESB or when they captured him.
Remember when Luke turned of his lightsaber and jumped up on that ledge. Vader tossed his sword, what did Luke do? He turned his face away, he couldent avoid it, still it missed.
I don't think that is of bad marksman ship by Vader, rather to get Luke down from there.
If Vaders goal was to kill Luke, why would he provoke him all the time. Luke was hiding, saying that he didn't want to fight him. If Vader wanted to kill him, this would be the chance.
Look at the facts, how can ROTJ Luke be better than ROTJ Vader or even AOTC Anakin.
Vader has practised over 40 years.
Vader has masterd his style and even taken it to a higher level.
Vader has more potential than Luke, meaning that in AOTC, Anakin had practised for 10 years and would become better than Luke would be, how can Luke be better than him in 8 months.
Luke has practised without a master for 8 months.
All we see Luke do is hitting his sword back and forth.
He hasent mastered the force.
He hasent mastered the lightsaber.
He has around 3 years of jedi experience.
Everything is against Luke, tell me how he can become so good at such a short time when Vader, who would become more powerful than Luke, couldent with more than 30 years more experience.
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He didnt kill Vader because the emperor would be very angry at vader if he did.
Um Vader was looking for luke, he couldnt find him because luke was using the force to hide himself, you could see that vader reacted everytime he heard luke's voice, he was trying to find the source of the voice.
but Vader with the suit has much less potential than luke, luke is anakin's son and his potential is very close to anakin's potential. Remember Vader lost half his potential after mustafar.
Anakin had many flaws that luke did not, he was arrogant, impatient, reckless, etc. Luke was more mature and a faster learner.
He did have a master - Yoda and obi-wan, ghosts or not they could have taught luke as well as anyone could. Yoda and Ben were more experienced and wiser by this time, so they could suffiently train luke.
The movie skipped alot of parts, i am sure he learned more than that. Otherwise how would he know how to use force pull or fight vader with a saber,etc
Cause Vader was either near or at his limit ROTJ, his potential halved so luke's power could go beyond since luke's potential is well above it. And guess what luke does go well beyond, because if you read the NJO books, luke's power skyrockets in a relatively short amount of time. Surpassing virtually every single character in the star wars universe. (virtually = almost)
I don't think Lukes potential got that high with 8 months of jedi traning, neither do I think he could have masterd a style. That would take over a decade. He also didn't have much access to traning as normal jedi did nor much experience.
I'm quite pleased, it's enjoying to debate this with you.
Edit: this got a little ****ed up, me replys are in the quote line, sorry. (under your previous posts, you have to read at the dark area).
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Dec 20th, 2005 04:23 AM
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