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League of Champions Week Four: Digi Vs. Scoob/Leo
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MF DELPH
KMC's Alpha Black Dude

Gender: Male
Location: Retired

Warning League of Champions Week Four: Digi Vs. Scoob/Leo

Week 4 Battlefield: The Australian Outback
Duration: Monday, October 6th @ 10am thru Friday, October 10th @ 12am)

Digi Vs. Scoob/Leo

Judges: Jason, Badabing, Newjak


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2008 06:16 PM
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MF DELPH
KMC's Alpha Black Dude

Gender: Male
Location: Retired

Digi's Opening Post

He saw a light in the widower’s house, late as it was. A child wailed, over in the village. Mother, mother, why are the people crying? Who are the people crying, mother? There was no sleep there, either. There was not much sleep anywhere in Earthsea, tonight, Ged thought. He grinned a little as he thought it; for he had always liked that pause, that fearful pause, the moment before things changed.
- From The Other Wind by Ursula K. LeGuin


Digi’s Writeup (Week 4)

My Team
- Death’s Head II (Minion)
- Mary Batson (Mary Marvel)
- Freddy Freeman (Cpt. Marvel Jr.)
- Karate Kid
- Judomaster

LISTEN TO THE FOLLOWING LINK FIRST (have your sound on fairly high)
http://boomp3.com/listen/c1ier5ova_d/fwriteup3
It may not load the first time. Make sure it works, then listen prior to reading anything. Thanks. The accompanying scans/writeup is below.

Written Portion

- you’re going to have to listen to the audio portion for most of it. My plan is simple, but I don’t explain much here in the written part. I simply justify it with a few scans.

- My writeup (both audio and written) is the shortest yet. I’m working on scaling down the audio clips to manageable lengths. Enjoy!

- I just want to highlight a few things:

Cranial siphon in action:
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11xg9.jpg

Details of Death’s Head’s information assimilation. It’s not just skills. It’s the mind/soul/essence of a character. Here a character named Czorn, previously assimilated by Minion, talks about whether or not he can be released from Minion into a new host body.
http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh1dx2.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh2nz5.jpg
He eventually does, btw, and retains his entire being, simply in a new body.

Discussion with the same character earlier in that issue, reinforcing what the earlier scans already show us.
http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh3we0.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh4rp8.jpg

So everything I said about the nature of Minion’s assimilation is true. I have a lot of other scans that reinforce this, and will post them as needed, but these ones explain it the best.

To illadelph a while ago:


quote:


DigiMark007 wrote on Sep 16th, 2008 08:56 PM:
I misspoke slightly with Minion, concerning his information retention. I was in the process of figuring out the nuances of it when I talked to you about it, and want to clarify myself just to eliminate every doubt.

I said that he could, say, assimilate Tony's armor and replicate some of its qualities. This is false. He retains only information, not the ability to adapt powers to himself. So he could have perhaps Tony's scientific knowledge, combat skills, etc. or access to the databases in his armor. But he couldn't create a sonic blast, for example, just because the armor can.

So it's skills, memories, information, data, etc. But it goes slightly beyond that. He literally encases a person's mind within himself. Not physically, since he's killing the physical brain. But the person actually resides in Minion thereafter...like a soul, but it functions exactly like a mind. Similarly, he wouldn't be able to, say, use telepathy with Jean Grey's mind, since her telepathy is also dependent on the body that hosts it. But he would have her knowledge of using telepathy, for example.

So let's say I draft Karate Kid, and assimilate him (which I'm considering). I'd have KK's mind (and thus skills) inside me for the rest of the tourney, yes? But it's limited only to what a person's mind/soul provides them, not powers that are dependent on the body at all.

I want to confirm that this is acceptable, so that there's no controversy when I use it. Because if I slowly upgrade Minion with various skills (like KK, who's a main component) he'll be a friggin' beast by playoff time.




quote:

DigiMark007 wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 12:19 AM:
I already talked to you using the anecdote of Karate Kid, who I'm probably picking up for my next match. But to feel totally secure, I want to share the full extent of my plans with Minion, so as not to be stopped cold with a ruling.

As I explained it, Minion assimilates not just data/instincts/skills but the actual mind/soul of the person. The ruling, then, was that anything that the mind/soul grants me, is allowed, while anything requiring the body is not, which includes nearly everyone's powers (even mind-based powers like telepathy wouldn't be included). This was happily approved by you.

I'm drafting Mary Marvel (classic, before any upgrades from Darkseid/Black Adam), who is high meta. Mary herself summons her powers from the wizard Shazam, and it is not her host body but who she is that is important. Add that to KK, Minion's own powers, and the various others I have already, and those whom I may draft/assimilate as things progress, and I'm turning Minion into the most powerful character in the tourney, by a lot, next round.

Based on the earlier ruling, this should be legal in regards to the information retention rule. But it's obviously a bit more than KK and other martial artists and such. I don't want to hide anything from you, because then I'd be putting myself at risk in the match and would only have myself to blame.




quote:

illadelph12 wrote on Sep 16th, 2008 09:21 PM:
Yes, that's an affirmative.

Happy hunting Digi.



So there ya go. Anything that the mind/soul provides, he can retain from match to match. Mary and Freddy’s minds/souls are all I need, and can summon the power whenever I need to.

The Battle

- We have to field 3 total characters in the battle. But they don’t have to be alive (also ill’s ruling). Minion heaves a couple corpses over his shoulder during prep, then drops them as soon as he’s teleported to the battlefield, just so we’re doing everything legally.

- I realize I’ll be dealing with their team, and some exotic powers. I wanted to focus on my own stuff in the writeup here. But I haven’t forgotten about Scoob and leo, and will talk about their team directly soon.

Oh, and just to get us kicked off…

Mary. Damn. Marvel. Only half of his total magical power.
http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary1gq9.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary2oj3.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary3te4.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary4we4.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary5ga6.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary6xj6.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary7pp2.jpg




Shazam, b*tches. Shazam.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2008 06:33 PM
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MF DELPH
KMC's Alpha Black Dude

Gender: Male
Location: Retired

Leo/Scoob's Opening Post

Okey-dokey. Let’s get this show on the road, shall we? smile

First, off, our team:

Ultimo
Scrambler
Meanstreak
Shift
Batman
Fabian Cortez

We are using the Batcave as prep. And what do we do during that prep? Well, a couple things.

PREP--0-2mins:

shift immediately meshes with ultimo and shapeshifts into water vapor so that ultimo fits inside the cave. Next, Fabian amps Meanstreak, pushing his max speed to well over the speed of sound. (Special Note: cortez is an expert with his abilities—he is ALWAYS careful not to OVERAMP anyone as he is ACUTELY aware of what his powers are capable of doing!) with the amping done, (which takes literally seconds as cortez’s powers are always ‘on’) Batman amalgamates with the speedster Meanstreak and accesses the Batcomputer. What do they look for? Information on poisons. Specifically, on the toxins that Batman has faced while battling Poison Ivy. Now, how well does Bruce know Pamela? Well enough to have actually REVERSED her powers.

http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ivy1cn6.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ivy3cx4.jpg


(She later took a serum to REGAIN her abilities.) Batman has developed antidotes for nearly all her past toxins, and has proven time and again to be proof against and have antidotes for her lethal touch and her mind-controlling drugs. Unlike FG in our last match, we don’t try recreating the toxins, we simply read and store the information. When we have what we want, we grab the promethium sword that batman has in the cave along with the most powerful explosives available in the cave.

here are just a couple scans of meanstreak to prove he can perform the simple things we are using him for. in the first we see him battling a mechanical, computer-enhanced opponent. in the second, we see his speed utilized in conjunction with his computer expertise:

http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=streak2qa6.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?...terspeedmv0.jpg

2-4mins:

Fabian amps scrambler’s powers AND he amps shift’s powers as well. You see, a common misconception as relates to cortez is that his powers only affect mutants. no his powers affect ANY superhuman. Here he effortlessly messes with the power of the very non-mutant HIGH EVOLUTIONARY. [SCAN FORTHCOMING] while he does that, batstreak arms the explosives and goes back to the computer to get some last minute info on our opponents, looking specifically for weaknesses of the type BROTHER EYE (which batman programmed) may have recorded. When they have found everything they could find on the Marvels’ and the rest of his team (the dc members), they then assimilate whatever additional chemical knowledge they can, (knowledge batman ALREADY possesses) and end this phase by de-amalgamating.

4-10mins:

Batman grabs a few last items from the cave and stores them in his belt then the amped scrambler amalgamates with the amped meanstreak and the amped shift and ultimo to create . . . the big guy.

now, it likely bears mentioning--digi will probably have some scans showing the 'low showings' of some of our guys. that's all well and good, but bear in mind if he does--most of our guys are amped and amalgamated. any 'low showings' will more than likely be utterly inconsequential to this match as those weaknesses that he points out will have been addressed and eliminated.

BATTLE

Our plan is not a difficult or complex one. shift is a shapeshifter of the greatest order, able to alter his elemental make-up as well as his density and size. he is composed entirely of unstable molecules and is essentially indestructible. here are just a couple examples of his abilities:

he can become ANY element:

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?...changingxi1.jpg

he can assume MULTIPLE and combinations of elements:

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?...pleformsei5.jpg

his durability is rather high. here he survives ground zero of a nuke:

http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nuke1qg1.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nuke2fn4.jpg

a bit of a size change AND it looks cool (he was pretty po'd here and later turned into a cloud of acid and tear gas, then become fire retardant foam AND an analgesic skin cream to help the guy with the acid burns he gave him . . . a po'd shift is NOT a good thing . . .)

http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?...imesoverxt2.jpg

his ability to change form is instantaneous:

http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?...ingspeedyo2.jpg

and he can assume some pretty crazy shapes:

http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blobdi2.jpg

and all those abilities are amped not only by cortez in prep, but by ultimo's accessible mass. shift was able to transform into shapes (like the blob) that were many times his own size and cover huge areas while is gaseous or liquid form. now, put that ability in a being 20x shift's size . . . the big guy could easily assume shapes a 1000ft tall or long and cover massive amounts of space with gases and liquids. in his amped state, he could perhaps DOUBLE these limits.

so, what do we do? well, we appear ABOVE the battlefield and decend upon it in the form of poison rain. the rain will fall at speeds that exceed mach 1 and will cover the majority of the battlefield. shift will be in complete control of this rainfall, and will be directing the torrent towards their team, becoming a mass of flowing, flooding poison once the poison rainfall hits the ground. poison ivy's poison is deadly on contact, but it is really only an added bonus. because we've amalgamated shift with scrambler, anything the rain or flood touches is scrambled. smile

here is just a quick example of scrambler's abilities on havok:

http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?i...rambler1br1.jpg

here he wipes out the NON-MUTANT power pack kid and says his touch will kill her human body if he maintains contact:

http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?...pack2717ur8.jpg

and here he eliminates wolverine's healing factor:

http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?...en205018bl0.jpg

good luck dodging poison raindrops that fall at the speed of sound and scramble the powers of whoever and whatever they touch. smile

nothing he can do to us will have any impact or our liquid form. if we need to, we can reassume our giant form and shift can become magma. ultimo actually draws power from heat. we could become a semi-liquid version of ultimo, that actually INCREASES the power of the robot! should we need them, ultimo's disintegration beams and strength will be amped by the lava form that grants him increased power (scans available should be they needed or requested.)

we are beyond physical harm. we can shift from robot to any elemental form we choose at will and so are immune to technological assault as well. in his humanoid form, shift was able to battle both shrapnel and mammoth h2h, both beings in the cl100 range. imagine how strong he'd be in ultimo's body . . . mary and jr have nothing on us. smile

once his team has been completely scrambled, batman lobs his explosives, his razor-edged batarangs of he uses the promethium blade to finish them off.

some other possible options (for minion in particular) include becoming invisible gas (by extending just a small part of our body) and entering his ears or nose then expanding our mass or solidifying inside him. likely wouldn't permanently kill minion, but it would cause him a lot of damage and he'd take a long while to heal. it should be a ko. if not, we could become an uber acid and eat away his unprotected insides once we've blown him to pieces.

if any of the others are armored, acid is a good option there as well, though the armor's systems would be scrambed, like any power on the battlefield.

and again, we can always fall back on becoming a 1500ft tall ultimo with quicksilver speed and simply pummel them into oblivion while being invulnerable to all their attacks. shift is even able to perceive the atomic structure of matter [SCAN FORTHCOMING]. all he needs to do is get a gander of minion's armor, then replicate it, and suddenly we're hitting them with near-adamantium fists the size of buildings at supra-mach speeds.

simple as. smile

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if any of the scans aren't working (imageshack was giving me some problems . . .) i'll repost them later on.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2008 06:35 PM
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Digi
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Digi Post #1

Notes

- I will be showing scans in this match of both Mary and Freddy, but also of Cpt. Marvel himself. But I'm not doing the "this person’s feats can be used for this other character," because that would be false. Rather, I have no other way of showing the vast amount of power at my disposal, since Mary or Freddy's feats are only half of what I'm capable of. So if you see a Cpt. Marvel scan, or I refer to his power level, it is only a convenient benchmark for the power encased within Minion.

- The same goes for Mary when she was recently upgraded by Black Adam and/or Darkseid. My total power with Freddy/Mary is now > hers even after the upgrade, so showing the feats is to give you a sense of my power, not because I'm using feats for a character I didn't draft. But I use classic feats whenever possible.

- I'm using both pre and post-crisis feats for KK, since the Legion's history is canon. I use only post-crisis for the Marvels, since their earlier history was completely retconned.

The Battle

So I just built someone who would punk Superman without breaking a sweat. In fact, he might not ever touch me in a fight. There's some scary implications here for anyone in the tourney. I posted the justification in my writeup, both ruling and scans, and if needed I have additional scans to corroborate and further prove every aspect of my plan. Minion Prime can win this match alone, but it may end up playing out rather interestingly.

What Scoob and leo will need to prove in order to win:
1. That they can hit someone who is moving Mach 10, and has KK's reflexes combined with the Marvel's fight speed. They'll try with their speedster, but here and later on I'll show why this is false. KK alone can hang with speedsters, such as a descendant of Barry Allen:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y9...nture373-17.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y9...nture373-18.jpg
...give him the speed of Marvel, who is already a blur to human eyes:
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel2rg6.jpg
...then combine those with KK's skill, and you're talking about a character that could only be hit by someone with Flash-like reflexes.
AND
They have to show how they deal with the aversion field, which means I can't be hit directly.
http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=judo1qc9.jpg
http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=judo2tq5.jpg
So, uh, damn.
2. They need to prove that they can do lasting damage to Minion Prime, who has the durability of the Marvels:
http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cmj3iw0.jpg
http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cmj4rl1.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cmj5cy5.jpg
...greater than that, actually, since Freddy is only half of the power, but can still take shots from Cap himself and not be harmed. And then add Minion's already-formidable durability:
http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h1xu6.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h2ap1.jpg
http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h3xa4.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h4tj8.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h5in7.jpg
As well as his insane healing:
http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=die1hh0.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=die2bd8.jpg

And you have a character that can't be put down by anything resembling a meta-level team, or even many herald-level beings.

How I Win

1. Their entire team, sans perhaps Shift, can be found in the opening moments of the fight and easily killed. Minion's blade configuration:
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh16rt9.jpg
Combined with the strength of the Marvels:
http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary19lx8.jpg
Or, more realistically:
http://img104.imagevenue.com/img.ph...capvsupes4c.jpg
...and a single blow from that would vaporize anyone on his team.
2. The speedster, who will inevitably be amped by Cortez. First, tourney speed limit is Mach 10, which includes reflex speed. I'm at that level easily with the Marvels, but have KK’s skill on top of it. Translation: they won't hit me. An equally fast but untrained opponent vs. KK would be like a monkey trying to hit him. The reflex advantage is still embarrassingly lopsided in my favor. Second, aversion field on top of that. Nuf said. Beyond that, they stripped a lot of their offense in the character overhaul this week. I'm not even sure what the speedster would do if he could touch me (he can't).
3. The disruptor. Has to touch me for his powers to work. Good luck with that, since Judomaster's aversion field prevents me from being touched. In a nutshell: this character is utterly worthless.
Aversion field again:
http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=judo3ad5.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=judo4lx8.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=judo5zm8.jpg
4. Who can fly on their team? Shift, and maybe Batman with proper prep. But not at Mach 10. So I fly around and can pick my spots to fight.
As for Shift himself:
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary22sj7.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary23zf1.jpg
Whirlwind him into incoherent atoms floating in space FTW! He’s completely pwned.
5. Really, how are they going to hurt a being that could realistically destroy the entire planet?

End Notes

- Speed at the tourney caps, too skilled to hit, can't be hit directly due to aversion field, too durable to hurt, too powerful to do anything but pwn. Telepathically resistant, I can fly around as I pick my spots to fight them, etc. etc. I have no idea how I'd go about killing me, or surviving me. Chances are, Scoob and leo don't either, and will be pulling ridiculous stuff out of nowhere to try.

- So hell, they have a disruptor who can't touch me, a speedster who can' touch me and is no faster than me, and not nearly as skilled. An amping guy who just helped those two become even more tragic with how worthless they are. An element guy that would survive for a bit but lose horribly to my power. Batman ( ). And Ultimo, who's scary to meta levelers, but is getting dump trucked by someone with my skill, speed, and power. Bats better have an Anti-Holy-Sh*t-It's-A-Teamwrecker Spray in his belt. Otherwise, epic lose.

Reactions to Their Writeup

- They did me the favor of having Shift become all kinds of gas and liquid forms. The above attack I listed for him will work wonderfully.

- How exactly does Ultron make Shift stronger, since he's an amorphic cloud for most of the fight? And how can you amp someone's ability to become the elements? Does he become them...more efficiently? I dunno. Seems like they didn't think that through too well.

- If Meany got amped to beyond Mach Speed, but still not near the caps, I'm faster than him by a lot both in terms of flight speed (Marvels) and reaction times (KK)

- The disruptor guy can't touch me. Aversion field. He's screwed.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2008 06:53 PM
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leonidas
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Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

so, legalities dealt with (mostly . . .) let's get on with it.

so your guy is a really really good . . . brick. erm dhii was ALREADY cl100. you made him stronger. he was fast. you made him quite a bit faster. and you gave him h2h skills that won't help him in the least. you've made him a great brick.

but . . . a brick is a brick. smile

you're only answer to our shapeshifter is a whirlwind? well, shift has had PLENTY of experience with those. here's just one:

http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?...hirlwindrl2.jpg

there have been a couple others. and yeah, i know it looks bad for our hero, but remember that little PLAY TIME'S OVER SCAN, i posted in my OP. . . well, playtime was over for the guy (a superspeedster) who attacked him in the above scan. and playtime was over only a couple pages later. and THAT shift was no where NEAR as massive as this shift. he did NOT have meanstreak's superspeed reflexes or healing abilities that would enable him to alter his form to counteract the effect, or to simply use his OWN speed to negate it. beyond that, do you REALLY think your whirlwind could 'scatter his molecular structure' to a higher degree than a NUKE could? blink

on top of that of course, bfr is illegal, and since it wouldn't come close to ko'ing us, we'd be back in a couple seconds good as new. smile

now, let's review--you have one guy on the battlefield. we fall in a rainstorm of poison, the drops hitting at greater than mach speeds. if the poison is not doing the trick, we become an acid cloud that stretches across the battlefield. as soon as the cloud touches you, your powers and systems are scrambled and you are effectively shut down. to finish you off, all we need to do is remain a gas, and it is easy for us to infiltrate your body through any opening. the acid would eat away the biological parts of you and allow easy access to your insides where we could expand and destroy you, or simply eat away at your lesser protected interior systems.

your aversion field is no good against wide-range attacks and that power is scrambed anyway. besides, how could anything POSSIBLY be wider ranging than a cloud that covers the battlefield? confused

no, you can't dodge it, or 'slip past' it. the cloud engulfs you and you have only a limited area in which to run. your super-brick is utterly useless against us as no physical attack you can summon will do a thing to us, and all we need to do is touch you to finish you. if you don't like that, we could always become a combination of rocket fuel and fire. no how big that explosion would be . . . .? shifty there'd be NO dodging that and the explosion would STILL be us. so once the explosive struck you in any way at all . . . SCRAMBLED SUPER-BRICK! big grin

you're not much faster than we are, and we have plenty of h2h combat-style superspeed scans to call upon. you have travel speed scans. in combat, we may well equal or surpass your speed. if we went metallic, at 1500ft and made of the same stuff dhii is made of we'd be even STRONGER than you are. we have at LEAST the same healing talents but you can't touch us or harm us in any way. we engulf the field so you can't dodge then we scramble you, or infiltrate your body and destroy you from the inside. or we form the cloud (which you are inside) then slowly reform to create a prometium sphere which we shrink and shrink to simply hold you in while cortez overloads your abilities.

we have so many options, they're hard to enummerate. i can't see how your brick has even the slimmest of chances in this match my friend. no


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2008 01:06 AM
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Digi
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Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Digi Post #2

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
so, legalities dealt with (mostly . . .) let's get on with it.


Clarification: They asked about me fielding only 1 living combatant, along with 2 corpses. It had been approved by ill via PM, and he reiterated his ruling in the discussion thread. Everything I'm doing is legal, and approved.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
so your guy is a really really good . . . brick. erm dhii was ALREADY cl100. you made him stronger. he was fast. you made him quite a bit faster. and you gave him h2h skills that won't help him in the least. you've made him a great brick.


Painting Minion Prime as only a brick? Cute. If the above scans don't disprove that, my current and future posts will as well.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
you're only answer to our shapeshifter is a whirlwind? well, shift has had PLENTY of experience with those. here's just one:

http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?...hirlwindrl2.jpg


"Only" answer? Hardly. But a damn good one.

The scan you posted is cool, but it was self-regulated. Look at it this way: If I spin around as fast as I can, I'll be dizzy but ok. If a guy hundreds of times faster and stronger than me spins me around with his entire force, I'll probably black out or hit something and die.

Minion could blow chunks of Shift around. He could fly around them and localize them apart from the rest. He could dig up a pillar of rock the height of a skyscraper and use it as a stirring rod to send you in a thousand different directions. You're seriously underestimating my options.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
on top of that of course, bfr is illegal


Yes, the scan was posted for affect. I wasn't attempting BFR. Just a similar tactic that would leave you incapacitated.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
now, let's review--you have one guy on the battlefield. we fall in a rainstorm of poison, the drops hitting at greater than mach speeds. if the poison is not doing the trick, we become an acid cloud that stretches across the battlefield. as soon as the cloud touches you, your powers and systems are scrambled and you are effectively shut down. to finish you off, all we need to do is remain a gas, and it is easy for us to infiltrate your body through any opening. the acid would eat away the biological parts of you and allow easy access to your insides where we could expand and destroy you, or simply eat away at your lesser protected interior systems.


Minion Prime is a fully transformed being with the raw power equivalent to Cpt. Marvel. Magically durable, instantly heal-able via both Minion's powers as well as the Marvels. What the hell is acid rain supposed to do?
Durability: http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary20gs6.jpg
...btw, that was with Black Adam's power, which is equivalent to what I now possess.
Or healing: http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.ph...d6_capjla1e.jpg
...he heals instantly from a broken arm when his power is granted to him. The power draws from the same source (the wizard Shazam) so it would have the same affect.

Oh, and corroding insides?
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00ja5.jpg
Death's Head 101. Just read the first paragraph. Anything that acid would affect within him is fully protected from corrosion.

Swing and a miss.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
your aversion field is no good against wide-range attacks and that power is scrambed anyway. besides, how could anything POSSIBLY be wider ranging than a cloud that covers the battlefield? confused


First, my aversion field is good for making 2/3 of your team worthless. If this turns into my Superman-busting amalgam vs. a dubiously-amped Shift, I think we all know who wins that fight.

Second, more importantly, is this ludicrous idea that you're covering the entire Outback. Larger because of the merge with Ultimo. I get that part. But you're talking about a large portion of a continent. You didn't merge with Galactus or Composite Man or something. But if you really want to spread yourself that thin, it'll make it easier to take you out. I listed several ways above.

Oh, and care to explain to me how you're covering the entire battlefield at the very start of the battle? You aren't. Therefore I have room to work with, and ample time to pwn your ass before you so much as expand as big as a city block.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
no, you can't dodge it, or 'slip past' it. the cloud engulfs you and you have only a limited area in which to run. your super-brick is utterly useless against us as no physical attack you can summon will do a thing to us, and all we need to do is touch you to finish you. if you don't like that, we could always become a combination of rocket fuel and fire. no how big that explosion would be . . . .? shifty there'd be NO dodging that and the explosion would STILL be us. so once the explosive struck you in any way at all . . . SCRAMBLED SUPER-BRICK! big grin


I can't wait until the part where you show Scrambler doing anything to magical powers from a Skyfather+ source. Or how you scramble the inherent skills of KK, that have nothing to do with powers. Come to think of it, or scrambling tech, since Minion's "powers" are built into him and aren't "powers" in the inherent organic sense like mutants are.

Not that it matters. The cloud is your only hope, and is getting horribly pwned. But for it to even have a chance, you'd have to show that stuff.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
you're not much faster than we are


But I'm faster.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
and we have plenty of h2h combat-style superspeed scans to call upon. you have travel speed scans. in combat, we may well equal or surpass your speed.


Are we going to fight over combat speed scans? When I have a dude fast enough to share a breathe with heralds and the skills of KK?! Please, let's do this. You show me yours and I'll show you mine. Guess who rapestomps that encounter....

evil face

A taste, if you feel like biting:
http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kk4by1.jpg
Much more where that came from. Much more.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
if we went metallic, at 1500ft and made of the same stuff dhii is made of we'd be even STRONGER than you are. we have at LEAST the same healing talents but you can't touch us or harm us in any way. we engulf the field so you can't dodge then we scramble you, or infiltrate your body and destroy you from the inside. or we form the cloud (which you are inside) then slowly reform to create a prometium sphere which we shrink and shrink to simply hold you in while cortez overloads your abilities.


You'd be stronger than Minion, sure. But not Cpt. Marvel, which is essentially what I am now (plus other stuff, of course).

Healing, lulz. Check ma feats. I haven't even posted Minion's best healing feats and they're still better than anything you have.
For example: http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=die1hh0.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=die2bd8.jpg

More durable? Beg to differ.
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=41mh1.jpg
Nothing you make would have a prayer of holding me.

Notes

- Minion can survive nukes too:
http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh14cv5.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh15ff2.jpg
...and that's before the Marvel upgrade.

- We don't have to breath his cloud (both Minion and Marvels can survive in space, so they don't need air). We don't have to murk around in it. Without knowing what constitutes BFR, let's say I grab a chuck of rock that could be seen from space, go up to about the edge of earth's atmosphere (or wherever I'm not "BFR'd") and spin it around the Outback with such ferocity that it incapacitates Shift for the 2 minutes that constitutes a win (as per delph's ruling).

- Or hell, speedblitz the goddamn earth until it is a bunch of rubble. What then? We may need to increase battlefield size. A continent isn't going to be enough to hold me for long. I really just lapped most of the tourney in terms of power, and plan on using it accordingly. Any of these tactics can and will be used if they help me win the fight.

- If I'm only a brick, their team is a pile of poo. 2/3 of them are worthless and won't have any bearing on the fight. The other 1/3 is in a lot of trouble, and just ran into a character that Scoob and leo will tragically underrate in order to try to make you believe they have a chance. They don't.

- Can one of you post your definite amalgams? I have Shift/Scrambler/Ultimo, but you never explicitly stated the others in the writeup unless I missed it. Thanks.

- OOh. Just thought of this. I target Cortez first. He dies quickly and effortlessly. I doubt his amping powers will work postmortem.


__________________

Last edited by Digi on Oct 7th, 2008 at 05:22 AM

Old Post Oct 7th, 2008 05:10 AM
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Digi Scans-Only Post #1

....


(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2008 05:16 AM
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Scoobless
sselboocS

Gender: Male
Location: The Scoob Cave

Hi.

I'm curious as to why the wizard Shazam would grant his power to the guy who just murdered his students/followers.

Because that's what you are actually talking about here, power that's granted from a higher source and given only to those deemed worthy.

Has Shazam ever given his power willingly to murderers before? it's not just a case of learning the right word to say (You think random characters in DC who say the word shazam gained any power from it?) Minion would still have to be GIVEN this power and that just isn't happening.

Downloading/copying synaptic impulses and brain configurations does not mean the people actually "live on" inside your evil robot man, they just die and their connection to the magics goes with them.

I honestly can't imagine why you (or anyone else) would believe that shoving a metal spike into a kids head is going to grant you magical powers ... especially when those kids aren't even the source of the magic involved.

And Karate Kid is just going to stand there and let Minion kill him? that's highly doubtful as well.

As it is, you have one character on the field (plus two speed bumps) and this single opponent is really only limited to Minion's abilities with Judo master's "aversion field" (and possibly Karate Kid's skill if you can convince people that you'd be able to subdue him without destroying him, thus losing the ability to steal his instincts)


With that being the case there isn't much you can do to "Big Guy" (worst name ever btw Leo)

All our component characters were amped beyond regular levels prior to amalgamation.

MS's speed coupled with Ultimo at regular levels would already push him to the tourney speed limit of Mach 10 (because MS's power isn't about distance traveled, it's about the rate he moves his limbs to attain velocity ... longer limbs = faster speeds)

Once you add in the power amp to both components we're looking at around mach 50 movement and reaction speeds.

We couple this speed with Shifts transmogrifying power and we can sweep across the landscape like the sandstorm in the Mummy:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cDrCgnE3wWk
(skip to 33 seconds in to see what I mean)

Now just picture that travelling 50 times the speed of sound ... but instead of sand we'll be composed of molecular acids (like in Aliens) getting into every pore and orifice on Minion's body, digesting him alive .... nasty.

And/or

Once we build up enough mass inside your body (from the previously mentioned plan) we solidify it into the strongest materials known (which might be promethium/promethius for Shift) and simply paralyse you from the inside out = TKO

______________________



Back to the Shazam plan for a sec (if anyone actually buys it that is)

It would create a brick character as Leo said (bricks = strength/flight .. maybe speed)

Shame about the glaring weakness Batman can easily tell us how to exploit though:

(please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)

All we need is a simple electrical strike, which will be no problem at all to a character that incorporates massive power reserves that have been used to power aircraft carriers in the past (Ultimo) along with the ability to alter himself into any form he wishes (Shift) which he could do virtually instantly thanks to Meanstreak & Cortez ... hell, we could probably electrify our gigantic acid storm so that if you so much as touch it you'll lose the Marvel's abilities altogether, which leads us back to you becoming a semi-living statue for the rest of eternity.

____________________________


Not my usual quote/reply driven posting style for tourney matches, but I was basically responding to an audio file so you'll have to forgive me.

I'm sure there will be more to say after this though.

smile


__________________


Do you even KMC???

Last edited by Scoobless on Oct 7th, 2008 at 08:28 PM

Old Post Oct 7th, 2008 08:25 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

well, scoob stole a bit of my thunder, alas, i'll see what else i can add. smile

so, to review--again.

digi has a brick. a pretty good brick. most certainly not a brick that could beat trans-levels, as he is saying. doubtful that he'd beat superman, in fact. (supes is WAY faster,+ t-vo pwns big grin )

first, he's assuming that just because the minds of freddy and mary were absorbed, that it would be enough to summon the power into a body that has commited murder. the being is supposed to be noble. dhii is NOT noble . . .

next--i'd like to know HOW you are summoning BOTH sets of power? if freddy's mind is given reign, he summons the power, dhii speaks and IF anyone believes that would call forth the power, then, when mary's mind is given reign, what does SHE do? she ALSO calls forth the power with a second lightning bolt. wouldn't that change freddy back? confused cap marvel HIMSELF has been changed back by lightning strikes and mary was ko'd via a lightning strike . . .

beyond that, you're assuming that dhii's body could WITHSTAND a strike by a magical lightning bolt from a skyfather level being! this is NOT an amalgamation of the characters, people. this is dhii's body attempting to contain all this power. i see no reason whatsoever to believe he could do so. no

next assumption--digi is assuming that cap marvel himself is nowhere to be found. if he WAS, they'd be DIVIDING the power, and mary and freddy together would be FAR less than cm or adam alone.

the only thing that digi has going for him is his speed, which is NOT all that much greater than ours. cortez amped psylocke to the point where she could hear minds ACROSS THE GLOBE. even WITHOUT achieving that level of amping, we'd easily be at mach 10 and our speeds would be equal.

and for all his talk, digi's offense is . . .?

a whirlwind, or a variation thereof. no expression

he says his guy renders OUR guys useless. let's review:

his strength? useless.
his speed? equalled by us, or close enough to no longer be any advantage.
his healing? not effective against our assault.
his h2h skill? useless

so . . . what DOES he have?

he has an acid storm blowing at him at upwards of mach 10, getting into every one of his nooks and crannies.

and as soon as we touch him, he is scrambled.

i WISH i could find the scan of scrambler affecting tech, but i can't at the moment. however, he HAS scrambled cable. even if you don't believe scrambler could directly affect dhii's systems, he CAN scramble dhii's additional SUPERPOWERS. so at worst, we've eliminated the marvels' powers (assuming you think dhii could summon them, and that his cyborg body could store the power.)

now, i actually misspoke a little earlier. when i said he covers the battlefield, i meant he covers the distance which seperates us at the outset--namely the .5km between us. and we do that almost instantly. to run away (which is what he is doing, make no mistake) from our assault, you'd need to get OUTSIDE the storm we have BEGUN the instant we arrive. no chance. and we can expand, and shift to follow and head you off anyway.

once he is in the storm, he is finished. we can solidify a part of ourselves into a prometium sphere like this:

http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shielddt1.jpg

then we leave a tiny whole and let cortez overload you. or we fill it with gas or liquid and infiltrate your body like this:

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?...pressurekp6.jpg

and all of this happens at close to mach 10 speeds. shift would be able to alter forms instantly, and with so much mass he could become almost anything.

here's a scan showing how much space HALF of him can take up as a gas:

http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gasag8.jpg

imagine that x250 and moving at mach 10. i'm thinking digi isn't really understanding the power we can bring to bear. ALL WHILE BEING INVULNERABLE TO HIS ASSAULTS.

and recall: he wants to WHIRLWIND A SPEEDSTER! laughing out loud

i showed a scan of meanstreak CREATING a whirlwind! we just counteract it, or if we feel even SOMEWHAT threatened, we shift form to a solid, like promethium and POUND him. at 1500ft we ARE stronger than he is. 15 HUNDRED FEET!! moving at close to tourney max speeds! made of PROMETHIUM!

as a gas we get inside him and change to promethium and he can't move.

here is the ultimate brick--SHAGGYMAN, against shift:

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?...haggymanwv8.jpg

yeah, not so close. erm

to beat him, LITERALLY, all we have to do is TOUCH him. he has ABSOLUTELY no offense capable of harming us in any way. we can defeat him in any number of ways, even IF you buy his amping strategy.

the big guy kix! big grin

(oh and our amalgam is ultimo/shift/meanstreak/scramber)


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2008 10:21 PM
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Digi
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Digi Post #3

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
I'm curious as to why the wizard Shazam would grant his power to the guy who just murdered his students/followers.

Because that's what you are actually talking about here, power that's granted from a higher source and given only to those deemed worthy.

Has Shazam ever given his power willingly to murderers before? it's not just a case of learning the right word to say (You think random characters in DC who say the word shazam gained any power from it?) Minion would still have to be GIVEN this power and that just isn't happening.

Downloading/copying synaptic impulses and brain configurations does not mean the people actually "live on" inside your evil robot man, they just die and their connection to the magics goes with them.

I honestly can't imagine why you (or anyone else) would believe that shoving a metal spike into a kids head is going to grant you magical powers ... especially when those kids aren't even the source of the magic involved.


We all have our strengths and weaknesses as competitors. The best have a combination of many strengths. I make no claims of superiority in any area, but one of my strengths is the ability to predict another's plans and arguments. You're a great tourney participant, and know all the angles. Fortunately, I guessed at most of the ones you've taken so far.

I had a post that answers all of this completed before this match started. All it needs is a few tweaks. I'll post it after I'm done dissecting this stuff. It'll be post #5. I'd have been a fool not to have planned for this, and I'm 100% prepared to show you all the wrong assumptions you're making there. I didn't put this plan together on a whim. Nor did I need to stretch the truth. My plan does work, and I'll prove it with hard evidence that trumps your speculative nonsense.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
And Karate Kid is just going to stand there and let Minion kill him? that's highly doubtful as well.


Once I'm supercharged with the Marvels, it won't be hard. Also, the characters are only as active as we make them. This isn't a forum battle. If it was, none of our plans would ever come to fruition because CIS wouldn't allow for it. If I say it happens and it's within their ability to do so, it happens.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
All our component characters were amped beyond regular levels prior to amalgamation.


Quickly undone when I kill Cortez. You banked everything on the Shift amalgam, and have sh*t for a team otherwise.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
MS's speed coupled with Ultimo at regular levels would already push him to the tourney speed limit of Mach 10 (because MS's power isn't about distance traveled, it's about the rate he moves his limbs to attain velocity ... longer limbs = faster speeds)

Once you add in the power amp to both components we're looking at around mach 50 movement and reaction speeds.


Now you're contradicting yourselves. What happened to the cloud, which most certainly wouldn't be "running" anywhere? Ultimo's size and Meany's speed won't help him drift around faster. So you're either a LOT slower than me, or you're roughly as fast (but not as skilled) but forfeiting the only offensive tactic you've attempted this match so far (the cloud stuff). The Mummy sandstorm is aesthetically cool, but pointless, since your powers won't work together that way.

At least get the story straight ( roll eyes (sarcastic) )

- Oh, and ignore Scoob's "Mach 50" references. Unless he feels like being declared illegal for going beyond tourney caps.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Shame about the glaring weakness Batman can easily tell us how to exploit though:


Once again, a predictable counter, one that I knew I'd be answering sooner or later. Though I'll admit I figured it would be longer until someone pointed it out. You caught it on your first post...you really are as good as they come.

However.

One, that's only going to work if you think a bit of lightning would KO Minion. See the nuke-surviving scans of earlier posts for pwnage on that. Because he can just say "Shazam" again and it's back.

Second, the trick doesn't work quite as well on Jr.
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cmj6or8.jpg

Third, could you even make lightning? Shift might be able to do it (I'd like to see proof though, since we can't assume it), but it's again precious seconds for me to defeat you in a myriad of ways. Does he really have the presence of mind to do the dozens of things that he'd need to in order for you to have a prayer against me?

Fourth, I'm actually going to use this to my advantage. See my response to leo's post below.


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Old Post Oct 8th, 2008 02:42 AM
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Digi
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Digi Post #4

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
digi has a brick. a pretty good brick. most certainly not a brick that could beat trans-levels, as he is saying. doubtful that he'd beat superman, in fact.


Cap throws down with Kal on his own.
http://img104.imagevenue.com/img.ph...capvsupes4c.jpg

Please explain how adding KK's skills and Minion's metal/healing doesn't make him the favorite there. T-vo? K, maybe. Good thing you don't have T-Vo. Lulz. Point is, I'm at that level, or slightly beyond. Still holds true.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
first, he's assuming that just because the minds of freddy and mary were absorbed, that it would be enough to summon the power into a body that has commited murder. the being is supposed to be noble. dhii is NOT noble . . .


See post #5. Puts this handily to rest.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
next--i'd like to know HOW you are summoning BOTH sets of power? if freddy's mind is given reign, he summons the power, dhii speaks and IF anyone believes that would call forth the power, then, when mary's mind is given reign, what does SHE do?


You should know how Minion's mind works. Or realized that the scans I already posted prove you wrong.

Minion has universal access to everyone in his mind at once. Death's Head's mind moderates the deal, but it is its own amalgamation of over 100 personalities, skill sets, minds, and souls.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
beyond that, you're assuming that dhii's body could WITHSTAND a strike by a magical lightning bolt from a skyfather level being! this is NOT an amalgamation of the characters, people. this is dhii's body attempting to contain all this power. i see no reason whatsoever to believe he could do so.


Dude. I'm calling shenanigans on this one. I'd say it's a reach, but that would be too generous. It's frankly just stupid.

Mary Marvel isn't any more durable than you or I. Does her body "contain" the power like he's asking on Minion? No. The power is transformational. It's not an energy blast that needs to be contained. If it were, Mary and Freddy would have been incinerated a long time ago.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
next assumption--digi is assuming that cap marvel himself is nowhere to be found. if he WAS, they'd be DIVIDING the power, and mary and freddy together would be FAR less than cm or adam alone.


Are we really speculating on Billy's whereabouts? Yeah, their power oscillates a bit depending on Billy's status. But not enough to make anything I'm saying untrue. 66% of OMGWTFBBQ is still > your team.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
the only thing that digi has going for him is his speed, which is NOT all that much greater than ours. cortez amped psylocke to the point where she could hear minds ACROSS THE GLOBE. even WITHOUT achieving that level of amping, we'd easily be at mach 10 and our speeds would be equal.


Cortez dies in the opening instants of the fight. He's un-meshed and defenseless. Say hello to your original sub-Mach speeds.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
i WISH i could find the scan of scrambler affecting tech, but i can't at the moment.


I'll bet you wish that. As it is, you have nothing.

As for Cable, he's a mutant, as I'm sure you know. You yourself cited the Marvel's power as from a Skyfather+ source. You want to scramble it. But you can't. Or if you can, you've given us no way of knowing it. KK isn't powers. Minion's a machine-based being, and the Marvel's are a magic-based power.

So you have Minion and KK who are literally impossible to scramble, because they don't have traditional powers. And the magical Marvels, who you likely wouldn't be able to scramble due to the overwhelmingly powerful source. Ya got nothin, bub.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
now, i actually misspoke a little earlier. when i said he covers the battlefield, i meant he covers the distance which seperates us at the outset--namely the .5km between us. and we do that almost instantly. to run away (which is what he is doing, make no mistake) from our assault, you'd need to get OUTSIDE the storm we have BEGUN the instant we arrive. no chance. and we can expand, and shift to follow and head you off anyway.


I'm still faster. You're still limiting my options with lack of creativity. I could fly into the earth and come up in Cortez's sternum. Then you're LOTS slower and much less powerful.

As for your supposed attacks with Shift:
- Acid rain, dealt with earlier. Minion's fully protected against corrosion, even his inner parts.
- Chlorine lungs? Ha. I don't need to breath. Marvels and Minion can survive indefinitely in space. Or the sun. Or...
- Wading through their ridiculous mist would actually only be harmful to if he could scramble me. Dubious at best, given the complete lack of evidence against anything but mutants. And it straight-up wouldn't work on tech or KK, since they are not powers.

Also, new viable tactic. The transformative lightning can be used as a weapon:
http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.ph...olt_batman1.jpg
http://img142.imagevenue.com/img.ph...olt_batman2.jpg
I can simply walk through the cloud, yelling out the Marvel's power words, vaporizing the idiotic cloud. He's not scrambling Shazam's ability to grant them power, and he can't scramble anything else. And the cloud itself can't harm me. So hell, call down magical lightning that can destroy Superman and is the thickness of a mountain. Vaporized and owned.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
(oh and our amalgam is ultimo/shift/meanstreak/scramber


Thanks.

This does mean, though, that Cortez is dead before he has any affect on the fight. So's Batman. This battle is a 1-on-1. Advantage, me.

....

Summary of Points

- These points are fully developed in the last 2 posts. See them for more details. This isn't intended as argument, just summary of earlier points.

- Nothing they've shown with Shift's powers would even begin to hurt me. Their only hope, absolutely 1 hope, is scrambling. For that, see the next couple points.

- Everything they've shown with Shift couldn't even kill Minion alone. Add in my power(s) and you're still looking at a curbstomp.

- Minion's and KK's abilities are not "powers" in the way that Scrambler scrambles. KK's are skills and Minion's are built-in tech-based. At best, the scrambling works temporarily on the Marvels, yet the Marvels' powers are magic-based, from a Skyfather+ source, which they also haven't shown evidence for him scrambling. So let's say he scrambles them (doubtful). I say the magic words and then again, calling them back to me at 100%, and doing immeasurable damage to them in the process (vaporizing them with the lightning that transforms me). And he still can't kill base Minion. It's the worst-case scenario for me and I still stomp.

- I introduced the lightning attack in this post, but my earlier attacks are still entirely viable.

- Cortez dies in the opening seconds. He's un-meshed and defenseless. No amping for anyone once he dies. Ignore anything they say regarding him.

- My plans are fully proven in the following post, which I'll be posting soon. They have wild speculation on my team in a sloppy attempt to debunk it, and suspect "proof" for theirs. I will show everything I need to and more for you to believe everything I'm saying.


__________________

Last edited by Digi on Oct 8th, 2008 at 02:53 AM

Old Post Oct 8th, 2008 02:44 AM
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Digi
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Digi Post #5

The post in which Digi reinforces his overarching strategy, so as to remove any and all doubt. If you have any doubts regarding my strategy in this match, please read this post carefully.

The Accusation

Having failed at trying to get my plan to be declared illegal (the first logical step when hopelessly overmatched) they've taken to trying to debunk it. I would've been a fool not to prep for such an eventuality. As such, my defense is below.

Scoob and Leo want you to believe that:
A. Mary and Freddy's souls/essences aren't within Minion. It is just synapse structure and data and such.
B. The wizard Shazam would not grant power to me when I call upon the powers of Mary/Freddy after assimilating them.
C. Minion can't contain the power.

I have anticipated the first two, and have ample proof against them below. The third is just silly, because it falsely categorizes the Marvels' powers.

Part I

In court trials, the prosecution has a maxim that they try to hold the jury to: that all they need is a single credible witness in order to prove their case. They nearly always provide far more witnesses, but it isn't about the number, it's about the factual nature of their case (or lack thereof, if it isn't a good case).

You've already seen the following scans. In them, the character Czorn, one of the personalities inside Death's Head, has his consciousness transferred to another body. He speaks as a person, not as a collection of data. He uses the words essence and soul. The actual person Czorn is inside Minion, not mere data.
http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh1dx2.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh2nz5.jpg

Discussion with Czorn and other personalities
http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh3we0.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh4rp8.jpg

That proves my point. Period. But let's show another instance, thus reinforcing this one. Death's Head was once totally blown apart (in the first Battletide arc). One of his assimilated personalities, Bezial, manages to escape when Minion is torn into tiny fragments. Here he relates the episode:
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh17ar2.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh18uq9.jpg
...and I quote: "when my fleeing soul escaped into the Battletide, I encountered the body of your latest victim, Termagaira, the demon-lord. It was child's play to possess that form..."

My fleeing soul.

Does data have a will of its own? Do synapse structures and copied brain patterns have a desire to escape? No. People do. Souls do.

I trust I've proven this beyond any doubt. It's not a plan that I needed to stretch the truth for. I found the justification and implemented it. They're welcome to provide evidence to the contrary. But there is none. Until they do, my point stands.

Part II

After the original crisis, the wizard Shazam was easily able to find Billy and grant him his former powers:
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel1ok4.jpg

But he was unable to find Mary. As it turns out, this was because her being/soul had been subtly changed in the crisis, and Shazam was unfamiliar with it's particular signature. Eventually Mary happened upon Billy (Cpt. Marvel) in her human form and all was rectified, with her receiving her power.

But before that happened, Shazam was worried, and went searching for her so that she could once again be an avatar of his power:
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel4iw8.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel7hj9.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel8lr2.jpg
sometime later:
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel6zg1.jpg
Please notice the first scan. In it, he reveals that he should be able to track her "eternal soul." It is this that he channels his power into. And I've already proven that Mary and Freddy's souls are indeed within Minion.

As we see here, Shazam can indeed strip Billy of his power:
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel3va9.jpg

So you have to ask yourself the following question: Since Shazam can track their souls, which are now within Minion (and so he would know this), and he's also the only person who could deny them access to their powers, would Shazam really turn off their powers simply because they are in a new host body? He'd have to actively decide to cut their power, effectively spelling death for Mary and Freddy. The answer, then, is a resounding "no, he wouldn't." Shazam is not a tyrant. He wouldn't murder his charges, which is exactly what would happen if he cut off their power. Mary and Freddy are fully alive inside of Minion, with complete access to their power.

So to answer Scoob's question, no, Shazam probably isn't happy with Minion. But to enact retribution on him, he'd need to kill Mary and Freddy as well. Because Scoob's premise is based on the assumption that Mary/Freddy are dead, and wants you to believe that Shazam would simply cut off power from Minion. They aren't dead. Their minds and souls are alive inside Minion. I've proven that. And I won't presume to speak for the wizard, but I've given strong reasons why he wouldn't do any such thing. The default position for their powers is "on" which I now have within Minion. Shazam would need to become a murderer himself, and of Mary/Freddy no less, for that to change.

Part III

Classic Cpt Marvel Jr's host is actually Cpt. Marvel himself, not Shazam. It is indirectly from Shazam, but Billy is the one that controls it and monitors it. And while Billy feels a slight de-powering when Freddy calls upon the power, he can't actively track Freddy's whereabouts like Shazam could. So even if you believe Scoob's ludicrous musings about Shazam taking away power (you shouldn't), they only apply to half of my Marvel-boost.

Proven wrong on all counts. I think that clears us up.

Part IV

As I said in my response to leo above, the Shazam lightning isn't an energy blast that needs to be contained by Minion. If it were, Mary, Billy, or Freddy would be FAR less suited to "contain" the power in their human bodies. The power transforms the user. Nothing more. There's nothing to contain, at least not in the sense that leo explained it.

Fin

So, having proved everything, there's absolutely no reason why this doesn't work quickly, efficiently, elegantly, and powerfully. I didn't come up with this plan crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. I made sure every part of it was rock solid, then moved ahead with arguably the most powerful plan we’ve seen so far in the tourney. An exorbitantly powerful plan doesn't always have to mean it’s complex, a trap that far too many participants fall into.

They'll continue their attack. They have to. They're good debaters, and aware enough to know that they're screwed if the judges believe my plan. But watch what they show to counter me: it will be speculation, or wild interpretations of the evidence I've showed. Look what I showed in support: hard evidence. Am I adding my own words to help your understanding? Absolutely. But the scans and logic support themselves.


__________________

Last edited by Digi on Oct 8th, 2008 at 04:16 AM

Old Post Oct 8th, 2008 04:12 AM
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Scoobless
sselboocS

Gender: Male
Location: The Scoob Cave

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Now you're contradicting yourselves.



Yeah, yeah ... I wrote it in a rush before gong out, as soon as I stepped out the door I knew I should have worded it differently.

The gist is this - Super speed powers given to a larger form = multiplication of super-speed (be that running or flying in a gas/acid/whatever state)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Oh, and ignore Scoob's "Mach 50" references. Unless he feels like being declared illegal for going beyond tourney caps.


I actually thought the Mach 10 stuff was only the individual character limit with no limits on meshing ... doesn't matter, if Mach 10 is the cap then we're at mach 10.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
that's only going to work if you think a bit of lightning would KO Minion.


It's more about depowering than KOing ... but any damage suffered as a result would be a nice bonus ... also it may very well have been the forcible removal of her power that KOd Mary rather than a base electrical attack (as she had no burns or lasting damage)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Second, the trick doesn't work quite as well on Jr.
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cmj6or8.jpg


Calibrated attack >> random electrical discharge ... and we've been given the precise details from Batman.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Third, could you even make lightning?


As stated, we'll use a combination of Ultimo and Shift's powers to do that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Minion has universal access to everyone in his mind at once.


Still don't buy your "Marvel" plan ... frankly, it's way too far fetched.

On the off chance anyone else does you still have to explain how you're going to activate both sets of powers:

Turn one on *lightning-boom-Marvel* then summon the second lighting blast for the double up *lightning-boom-back to normal*

Seems like a big flaw to me.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
It's not an energy blast that needs to be contained. If it were, Mary and Freddy would have been incinerated a long time ago.


I like the fact that you said that, then went on to say this:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
The transformative lightning can be used as a weapon:
http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.ph...olt_batman1.jpg
http://img142.imagevenue.com/img.ph...olt_batman2.jpg


Clearly the lightning is FAR from harmless to those Shazam did not choose to represent him (also shown in Kingdom Come when Cap uses the lighting to make Superman bleed from his eyes, mouth and ears)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Cortez dies in the opening instants of the fight. He's un-meshed and defenseless. Say hello to your original sub-Mach speeds.


Cortez's presence is unnecessary to sustain his upgrades, once his energy is inside someone it will stay their until it wears itself out or Cortez forcibly removes it ... there is nothing to suggest his death would expedite the matter.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'm still faster.


Not if Mach 10 is the cap.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
As for your supposed attacks with Shift:
- Acid rain, dealt with earlier. Minion's fully protected against corrosion


It's not corroding, it's flat out melting him.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
- Wading through their ridiculous mist would actually only be harmful to if he could scramble me.


Wade away ... just makes Minion's future as a living statue an absolute certainty (see my first post)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I can simply walk through the cloud


Go for it - thumb up

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
He's not scrambling Shazam's ability to grant them power


Assuming Shazam would grant powers to a robot (which he wouldn't)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
He speaks as a person, not as a collection of data. He uses the words essence and soul. The actual person Czorn is inside Minion, not mere data.
http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh1dx2.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh2nz5.jpg


Much like many other comic characters such as Vision, Ultron, Eradicator, etc, etc ... robotic & artificial minds get transferred all the time, that's all this is, the transferring of the data that made up a persons memories, the original is still dead. All artificial minds are are collections of data.

And as for your pointing out the words "essence" and "soul" ... well those are merely questions a robot is asking himself, they are even less worthy of being called "proof" than hyperbole is.

He also asks "am I wasting my time hoping for a miracle like that"

The answer to that would be a resounding 'yes'.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Discussion with Czorn and other personalities
http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh3we0.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh4rp8.jpg

That proves my point.


It proves nothing more than a basic downloading of knowledge and instincts had taken place.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Bezial, manages to escape when Minion is torn into tiny fragments. Here he relates the episode:
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh17ar2.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh18uq9.jpg
...and I quote: "when my fleeing soul escaped into the Battletide, I encountered the body of your latest victim, Termagaira, the demon-lord. It was child's play to possess that form..."


You did note the fact that this guy just referenced his "vast necromantic powers", right?

To anyone unfamiliar with this term it basically means that this guy has magical powers linked to death and the dead. It's fairly common in fantasy stories for these guys to be beyond conventional methods of death and they often become undead or ghosts.

It's not beyond reason (comic book reason anyway) that this guys replicated personality could access his old knowledge (also syphoned) and use his magical knowledge to escape and animate a dead body ... and animating dead bodies is a Necromancers bread and butter.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
After the original crisis, the wizard Shazam was easily able to find Billy and grant him his former powers:
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel1ok4.jpg


So you think Shazam is going to come down and grant Minion these powers too? wouldn't that, apart from being ridiculous, be using outside aid (like Leo tried to do with S'ym in that other match)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I've already proven that Mary and Freddy's souls are indeed within Minion.


You've speculated to that effect based upon a self questioning robot and a necromancer not dying when he should have.

You haven't really "proved" anything.


__________________________


Heh, gotta say thanks to Digi for dedicating a large chunk of his posts to speechifying, saves a lot of time and space in replies when I can cut out the BS (no offense stick out tongue )

Seriously, mixing all those compliments in with telling people what they should believe ... have you ever considered politics?

__________________________


Back to basics:

Digi's entire plan revolves around you three judges believing two things (and it has to be both of those things or it still doesn't work)


Things Digi NEEDS you to believe to stand any chance in this match:

1) Minion (or Death's Head) can actually use a metal spike to forcibly remove the living soul from a human and then transfer that still-living soul into himself.

To me that seems like a huge leap in faith, logic & reason considering that every time it's brought up it's referred to as assimilating the instincts of the victim character.


Now before we go any further, if that seems at all like something that can't be done by using a few computer boards and a spike then ... well, then I guess his prep doesn't work and you don't need to read the next part (but you still should)


2) The Wizard Shazam would allow a robot who murdered his representatives to access his power.

This seems almost more unrealistic than the first point (almost) Shazam is one of those "all knowing" type guys ... there is no chance in hell he isn't noticing two of his main disciples dying within moments of each other at the hands of a machine ... and to then think he'd be cool with that same machine attempting to access his powers? no-"F"ing-way!


Since Digi brought up the whole "court" thing, why don't you judges take a moment to consider "Reasonable Doubt" ... that is to say, if there's even one part of these two points that seems doubtful, you have to throw Digi's entire case out the window.


__________________


Do you even KMC???

Old Post Oct 8th, 2008 06:08 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

i love the way digi makes our attempts at pointing out problems with his "masterwork" laughing out loud to be desperation. if you listened to him, you'd think that we cared whether or not he did or didn't have the marvels' powers. heh

once again, to reiterate--

he.
has.
a.
BRICK!

he can paint it whatever colour he likes, but a brick by any name is still utterly limited in vesatility. and beyond that, even his "bricky" assets aren't much. let's compare:

(1) big guy's strength>minion prime's strength (at 150ft friggin ultimo ALONE is <<cl100. shift is cl100. now picture them at 1500ft!! please. we're stronger no matter WHOSE power you have . . .)
(2) big guy's speed=minion prime's speed since BOTH are capped

let's see, what else does he have . . .?

confused

he has . . . NOTHING else. seriously. take away his strength/speed advantages like we have, what other offense does he have? lightning?

heh

that's actually funny. when i mentioned the ligtning possibly being able to injure minion, he said it was . . . what word did he use again . . .?

oh yeah--stupid. cuz it's 'transformative'. smile

yet, only shortly later, he mentions that the lightning can "harm superman!" blink

we've also seen its effects on thor, and on others as well. so . . . perhaps not so stupid, after all. were this a straight amalgamation, i could see where the idea would be silly--minion would gain the ABILITY to be transformed. however, that is NOT the case. in this case, the lightning might VERY WELL injure or take out minion. in fact, i really don't see why it wouldn't. digi himself said shazam would likely be po'd . . .

the thing he neglected to add was that since mary and freddy are ALREADY gone, what use would there be in GRANTING his power? he wouldn't free them--unless he commanded the lightning to do so . . . so, why bother?

there is also the purely logistical point i raised previously, that digi dodged--how can he LITERALLY SPEAK with both their voices simultaneously?

the magic words MUST BE SPOKEN. the word cannot be 'thought'. this has been shown on several occasions where billy or the others were prevented from talking. so even if both minds ARE free in minion's brain, they can STILL only SPEAK their magic words one at a time since minion has, you know, only ONE mouth! big grin

once he speaks for freddy, he gets hit by lightning and changed (or burned to a crisp). then he has to PHYSICALLY SPEAK AGAIN for mary to gain her powers. but once the lightning hits him he'd LOSE freddy's powers--and likely be burned to a crisp--AGAIN. so . . . how exactly do you get BOTH powersets again . . .? confused

as far as killing cortez--2 problems with that line of thought:

(1) we're as fast as you and WAY the hell bigger. you'd first have to locate him on the field THEN target him, all while realizing what we're doing above you. no way if a storm like we have is coming down on you that you search for cortez and try and kill him. at mach 10, our 0.5km seperation evaporates in tenths of a second. if you go underground, that gives us AMPLE time to save cortez. you wouldn't have time to even TRY to reach him. if you did, we're fast enough to block the attempt, or simply to use part of our mass to encase him promethium to keep him safe.

and (2) cortez's power amps characters for a short time even AFTER he has departed. so even if by some miracle anyone believes you can somehow beat us to him, we'd STILL retain our amping.


__________________

Old Post Oct 8th, 2008 09:16 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

you mention that streak's speed won't help us 'drift around' faster. er, why not, exactly? confused

shift now has meanstreak's amped speed. as a cloud, he STILL has that speed. your point makes no sense. we're a massive cloud, able to transform some or all of ourselves into any element and moving at mach 10. in his efforts to deny our speed, i think digi is finally realizing exactly what it is he's up against . . . shifty

as far as lightning/electricity not harming minion or taking out the marvels' (if you believe he has them) powers--it's not that the lightning would ko MINION. it's the effect it would have on the marvels' POWERS. Cap himself can OBVIOUSLY withstand much more than a lightning strike, yet it STILL plays havoc with his powers. it's not about the invulnerability, it's about what it does to the POWERSET. by becoming copper and nickel and iron, and mixing in some acid, we could become the world's biggest battery and blast you with enough lightning to wipe out all your powers easily.

that's just one MORE option. how many options have i shown you? every scan is a NEW way to take out your brick. and we've on-panel PROOF that lightning can take away a marvel's power. you could just summon it again, and we could just blast it away again. but, while WE'RE using part of ourselves to blast you, OTHER parts of our mass can ALSO be attacking you. and as soon as we touch you, we scramble the power and it's gone for at least a minute. in that time, you are dead. smile

and you bring up shift's presence of mind to attack electrically--he was prepped by BATMAN!! of course he knows the weakness, can transform INSTANTLY (fast enough to dodge a close-range laser shot) and just like that, lightning is EVERYWHERE!

we could grow to 1500ft--taller than the friggin empire state building!! and pummel you with promethium fists that move at mach 10 while our body is water or gas. and your offensive output is "whirlwind a speedster!!" laughing out loud that idea's offensive all right . . . heh

seriously folks, PLEASE do NOT for a second forget exactly how big we are. we can be PHYSICALLY larger than the empire state building! as a gas, we can spread over KILOMETERS and we move at tourney max speeds!

we can reach you, encase you in promethium (here is the scan of him being able to see the molecular structure of objects, btw--so we can see the structure of the sword bats has in the cave and become that, or become the metal that dhii himself is made of):

http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?i...tructurese0.jpg

we can infiltrate your body:

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?...pressurekp6.jpg

and harden or simply expand and blow you to pieces.

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leadtc4.jpg

we could become fully plastic-man-style malleable and just trap you, taking you out THAT way.

http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?...twrappedcl3.jpg

oh, and scrambler has easily affected nate grey's powers. that is a pretty high level. i see no reason at all not to believe he could scramble a portion of shazam's power. by powerset, he should be able to scramble dhii's systems as well, just as he scrambled the HUMAN katie power . . .

and you can't touch or harm us at all, regardless of whether you have the marvels' powers or not. kk's skills are UTTERLY USELESS, as are the rest of your brick's abilities. smile

you could try and call down lightning i suppose. has mary and freddy ever done that? and . . . as wide as a mountain? confused that i'd LOVE to see. you'd maybe hit small part of our amorphous form. but we have amped healing + we are so massive that even injuring a tiny part wouldn't matter. maybe we'd just assume our 1500 robot form and pummel you to death instead.

and i love how digi glossed directly over the attack where we get INSIDE him and solidify into promethium, stopping him cold, btw.
smile

oohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, and dear judges, lest i forget . . .

shift is not limited to merely becoming elements--or rather his control is such that he can become massive combinations of them. in this case, he has the ability to become nanobytes. smile

http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?...anobytesmh6.jpg

there is absolutely nothing keeping shift from becoming nanites and infiltrating dhii's systems in that way. once he's in, THEN he can become acid and hurt the vulnerable cybernetics (his fusion 'heart' is composed partly of ORGANIC compounds--melt them and dhii goes BOOM!) or just battle him for control, perhaps get into his memory banks and wipe out mary and freddy! don't forget, meanstreak is a technical wizard and with shift's nanitic body, he could cause some serious internal chaos.

once again, digi has his whirlwind offense, we have so damn MANY options, they are hard to keep track of!

so, yeah. there was something else i wanted to add, but i can't seem to recall what it was exactly . . .

http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mammothbr0.jpg

thanks shift! that was it exactly! big grin


__________________

Old Post Oct 8th, 2008 09:26 PM
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Digi
Forum Leader

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Location:

Digi Post #6

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
It's more about depowering than KOing ... but any damage suffered as a result would be a nice bonus ... also it may very well have been the forcible removal of her power that KOd Mary rather than a base electrical attack (as she had no burns or lasting damage)


Yeah, removing her power is what KO'd her. That's why the Marvels always black out when they revert to human form.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

I say the magic words again. It changes me back, and does crazy damage to you. Works out fine for me.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Calibrated attack >> random electrical discharge .. and we've been given the precise details from Batman.


Precise details from Batman. Lightning = depowerment. Cool. He can.t be more specific than that. He's not the one in the OMAC's mind creating the precise counter-measures, and he had long since lost control of them by that point.

I showed that the attack doesn't work on Freddy. Do you need me to post it again? How is your lightning any different from other lightning?

Also, you haven't showed that you can actually produce lightning at all. Since I know you guys would jump on the chance to post a scan proving it, I'm guessing you can't.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Turn one on *lightning-boom-Marvel* then summon the second lighting blast for the double up *lightning-boom-back to normal*


Speculation. It isn't lightning period that reverts them, a popular misconception. And since the power is specific to Mary or Freddy (depending on whose doing the calling) and from different sources, they won't interfere with each other.

But hell. I turned the lightning into an attack on you guys. It will vaporize anything inside and around me that isn't Minion. It's far >>>> normal lightning. And yes, btw, it's possible to transform the user but not harm them (just ask any of the Marvels), and harm those around them. Welcome to comics. I wasn't contradicting myself with that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Clearly the lightning is FAR from harmless to those Shazam did not choose to represent him (also shown in Kingdom Come when Cap uses the lighting to make Superman bleed from his eyes, mouth and ears)


Far from harmless. Yes. That's the point. Far from harmless to people who aren't wielding the power. Does Billy Batson "contain" the blast? No. Does he survive it? No. He's transformed by it. But it can hurt others. I'm not making things up. I'm telling you exactly how their powers work. You are clearly trying to invent things.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Cortez's presence is unnecessary to sustain his upgrades, once his energy is inside someone it will stay their until it wears itself out or Cortez forcibly removes it ... there is nothing to suggest his death would expedite the matter.


According to leo and you, his amps stay for a short time. You'll need to show evidence of this, of course. We can't take your word for it. But I'll operate under the assumption that it's true (judges, however, should only do so if they prove it, which they haven't yet).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
It's not corroding, it's flat out melting him.

Wade away ... just makes Minion's future as a living statue an absolute certainty (see my first post)

Go for it -


Quote cropping doesn't suit you. I was showing how I could take you out as I walk through the cloud (lightning vaporization). But that was if it came to that. My plan doesn't involve that unless needed, since the epic herald-level whirlwind is option 1. You conveniently cut out my attacks and context to make it seem like I was willingly just walking through it. Fail.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Much like many other comic characters such as Vision, Ultron, Eradicator, etc, etc ... robotic & artificial minds get transferred all the time, that's all this is, the transferring of the data that made up a persons memories, the original is still dead. All artificial minds are are collections of data.


'cept they don't have anything that lead us to believe they transfer souls. Minion's comics do lead us to that. So do you have an actual reason why 2 independent confirmations of my conclusions shouldn't be believed? No, you don't. My scans don't become false just because you will them to, or because you look at them and say "well, they say this, but what they really mean is..." Feeble speculation, paling in comparison to my hard facts.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
You did note the fact that this guy just referenced his "vast necromantic powers", right?

To anyone unfamiliar with this term it basically means that this guy has magical powers linked to death and the dead. It's fairly common in fantasy stories for these guys to be beyond conventional methods of death and they often become undead or ghosts.

It's not beyond reason (comic book reason anyway) that this guys replicated personality could access his old knowledge (also syphoned) and use his magical knowledge to escape and animate a dead body ... and animating dead bodies is a Necromancers bread and butter.


Minion assimilated him same as anyone else. He possessed another form by transferring his soul from Minion's collective-mind to another body when Minion was destroyed. End of story.

If the comic gave us any indication that this wasn't the case, or that Bezial was somehow different from any other assimilation, I'd happily agree. But I read it. It doesn't.

And "it's fairly common in fantasy stories"?!?! What does that even mean? Just to be clear, Scoob is now taking vague generalizations from "fantasy" to try to make a case against a scan.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
So you think Shazam is going to come down and grant Minion these powers too? wouldn't that, apart from being ridiculous, be using outside aid (like Leo tried to do with S'ym in that other match)


Only if a regular Mary Marvel would be illegal due to outside aid. I trust you wouldn't have objected to that.

And it isn't Shazam granting anything to Minion. Mary and Freddy have the ability to call the power, and Minion assimilates theirs minds/souls.

ACTUALLY. Since the default position for Mary and Freddy’s access to their power is "on" you'd have to get outside help from Shazam in order for him to turn it off. Shazam refusing to grant Mary/Freddy power would be illegal for Scoob and leo to argue for. HA!

All you have to do is believe that Minion assimilates souls. I do. Therefore, pwned.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Things Digi NEEDS you to believe to stand any chance in this match:

1) Minion (or Death's Head) can actually use a metal spike to forcibly remove the living soul from a human and then transfer that still-living soul into himself.

To me that seems like a huge leap in faith, logic & reason considering that every time it's brought up it's referred to as assimilating the instincts of the victim character.


Yeah. It's referred to as instincts. Except, um, when it isn't. I showed evidence that is impossible to interpret otherwise, unless you consider the characters and writers to be outright liars.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Now before we go any further, if that seems at all like something that can't be done by using a few computer boards and a spike then ... well, then I guess his prep doesn't work and you don't need to read the next part (but you still should)


You obviously missed the part where Minion has assimilated an abstract artifact to download the embodiment of a fragment of the universe itself. Seriously, Minion downloaded the essence of the abstract into himself and temporarily became abstract level himself through it. Slightly more than a computer board and spike involved in that kind of sh*t. I didn't think I'd need that scan, so I'll have it ready for tomorrow. He does SO much more than copy brain patterns, as I have shown multiple times (and will show again once I dig the scan out of my collection).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
2) The Wizard Shazam would allow a robot who murdered his representatives to access his power.


One, it would change the status of the match by an outside source. Illegal.

Two, Shazam doesn’t monitor and control Freddy’s power. Billy does, and he can't see the status of Freddy, so his soul inside Minion is the same to him as in his regular body. I already went over this. Selective memory much?

Three, he's not granting Minion power. He's granting his regular avatar power (Mary) and wouldn't take it away from her willingly (even if it wasn’t illegal).

More in a minute.


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Old Post Oct 9th, 2008 03:10 AM
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Digi Post #7

Lemme finish off Scoob first.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Since Digi brought up the whole "court" thing, why don't you judges take a moment to consider "Reasonable Doubt" ... that is to say, if there's even one part of these two points that seems doubtful, you have to throw Digi's entire case out the window.


I was going to return to the court analogy in the final post to bookend the match with it. It would have been poetic. Alas.

Anyway, what was it I said last post:
But watch what they show to counter me: it will be speculation, or wild interpretations of the evidence I've showed. Look what I showed in support: hard evidence. Am I adding my own words to help your understanding? Absolutely. But the scans and logic support themselves.

It's holding true. They haven't offered anything but their own stretches of the imagination, and trying to tell you that whatever my scans tell you, the opposite is true.

Let's add a small log to the fire, btw.
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1149314_page16/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1149315_page17/
Did Black Alice copy the body? No. The power? Yes. As it happens, BA's copying stems from being able to channel the "essence" of magic-users.

Oh, and did she survive it? Did it destroy her? Did she contain the blast with her human body? Or was she transformed by it? The last of those, obviously. Yet notice that the surrounding area is in flames. Doesn't hurt her, but it hurts those around her. Sound familiar ( angel )??

Later Scoobs. Always a pleasure.

Leo's turn.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
i love the way digi makes our attempts at pointing out problems with his "masterwork" to be desperation.


Not desperation. Speculation. And yeah, maybe a bit desperate, since you can't seem to produce a shred of evidence to the speculation.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
he.
has.
a.
BRICK!


Start a poll thread that asks if Death's Head II and/or Cpt Marvel are bricks. Let me know how it turns out. Better yet, check my scans.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
let's compare:

(1) big guy's strength>minion prime's strength (at 150ft friggin ultimo ALONE is <<cl100. shift is cl100. now picture them at 1500ft!! please. we're stronger no matter WHOSE power you have . . .)
(2) big guy's speed=minion prime's speed since BOTH are capped


Yes, let's compare.

Here's what KK can do with, say, class 800 pound strength because of his skill:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y9...ture_367-17.jpg
Earthquakes?! Chopping through a tank?!
Or: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y9...ateKid02-07.jpg

Now let's just ballpark the combined strength of the Marvels. Class Million+ sound ok? Going toe-to-toe with the best in DC is that level. Now add the skill to that strength. We're talking about a character that could split mountains with lazy chops. A character who could make earthquakes that create dust clouds that Shift could only dream of.

And you saw that scan of Mary owning Cpt. Atom alone, right? It didn't go away.

Yes, please compare. I made a goddamn high herald, at minimum. You have an Iron Man foe in mist form.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
that's actually funny. when i mentioned the ligtning possibly being able to injure minion, he said it was . . . what word did he use again . . .?

oh yeah--stupid. cuz it's 'transformative'. smile

yet, only shortly later, he mentions that the lightning can "harm superman!"


Already dealt with. The lightning has been established to transform the user but harm those around them. How do I know this? Because that's what happens every friggin' time it's ever been used in comics. Quit making things up.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
we've also seen its effects on thor, and on others as well. so . . . perhaps not so stupid, after all. were this a straight amalgamation, i could see where the idea would be silly--minion would gain the ABILITY to be transformed. however, that is NOT the case. in this case, the lightning might VERY WELL injure or take out minion. in fact, i really don't see why it wouldn't. digi himself said shazam would likely be po'd


It's the same as a straight amalgamation. I have their souls, which can trigger the power for the host body. If Mary/Freddy were completely separate from Minion's other personalities/souls, you might have a point. But it's a conglomeration of them all in the mind.

And it hurt Thor too? Cool. Thanks. Add that to its resume.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
as far as killing cortez--2 problems with that line of thought:
(1) we're as fast as you and WAY the hell bigger. you'd first have to locate him on the field THEN target him, all while realizing what we're doing above you. no way if a storm like we have is coming down on you that you search for cortez and try and kill him. at mach 10, our 0.5km seperation evaporates in tenths of a second. if you go underground, that gives us AMPLE time to save cortez. you wouldn't have time to even TRY to reach him. if you did, we're fast enough to block the attempt, or simply to use part of our mass to encase him promethium to keep him safe.


I say I target Cortez first. Therefore, he does. Let's see if you can see the attack, react to it, and make the promethium shield (which wouldn't stop me, btw) before a hidden underground speedblitz takes out a human level character.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
and (2) cortez's power amps characters for a short time even AFTER he has departed. so even if by some miracle anyone believes you can somehow beat us to him, we'd STILL retain our amping.


Which gives me an idea. See below.

Kid Gloves Off

Am I really only offering a whirlwind for Shift? Is Ultimo + Shift really a high herald being? They've upset me with the underrating of my character (see Mary Marvel scans in the writeup for proof that epic power is in just a fraction of Minion Prime). So let's see what we can do. Her power alone is enough for to do everything I’m about to say. ESPECIALLY added to KK's skill, which make all attacks so much more focused as to be inconceivably more powerful.

One, dive into the ground, speedblitz up into Cortez. Death. Their amps wear off, either immediately or eventually (but eventually only if they show proof, otherwise immediately).

Two, dive into the ground about a mile. No goddamn cloud there. Start circling the Australian Outback and making a large hole underneath it all, effectively slicing it off of the earth.

Three, fly it into the goddamn sun. I'm not leaving the battlefield. I'm just taking it with me.

Survive THAT.

So that's option 1. Option 2, giant whirlwind either by flying or by using a chunk of earth to manipulate it. Option 3, vaporize them with the transformative (yet harmful to others) magical lightning. Hell, I WANT to shut my powers on and off to do that. It's an advantage, not the crippling loss they want you to believe. Option 4, thunderclap them into incoherence. If I'm as fast as them, how do they get closer to me before I do that? Option 5, um, don't breath so they don't get in me, since you close off your breathing passages when not breathing. Or else, for example, water would flood your lungs as you swim underwater.

I made a team-busting character. All that stuff is not only feasible, but easy to do. Each one owns them. Whirlwind my ass...

So here's the deal. I just showed that Shazam cutting power would be outside intervention (thus illegal) and also against his nature. I've shown that their souls are all I need to access the Marvel's power. Many times. They've never refuted that point, only said that I don't have their souls (which I do).

If you believe that Minion captures souls within him, I win this match. Not only do I win, but it's not even close. I've shown multiple confirmations that he has souls/minds/essences. Scoob/leo have said "um, no, they say that but that's not what they mean." Don't believe the participants whose match depends on you not believing that. And hell, don't believe me either just because I'm saying it. But believe the scans. Believe the proof, which is not ambiguous at all in its wording. There's more below btw.

Notes

- As for the "OMG there's 2 of them to call down the lightning!" you're forgetting that it's from two different sources (one Billy, other Shazam), I've shown a lightning not affecting Freddy at all, and calling the lightning down as a weapon helps me. Even if you were right that the lightning would prevent me from using both at once (you're not) it would simply provide an offensive tactic for me. Again, worst-case scenario and I still pwn.

- They seemed to have given up on Scrambler. It's because they literally can't scramble those without powers (Minion/tech and KK/skill), and have no proof that it would work on the Marvels. NONE.


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Last edited by Digi on Oct 9th, 2008 at 03:39 AM

Old Post Oct 9th, 2008 03:29 AM
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Digi
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Digi Scan Only Post #2

Just to post or re-post a few scans that I alluded to in the above scans, but couldn't include for spacing reasons

As promised, Minion assimilating the fabric of the universe, the abstract quality of it encased within an actual object.
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh20cl4.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh21by1.jpg
Which turns him into an astral being with cosmic consciousness
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh22fj8.jpg
A lot more than data assimilation is going on here. A LOT!

Mary's ownage of Cpt. Atom
http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary1gq9.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary2oj3.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary3te4.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary4we4.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary5ga6.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary6xj6.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary7pp2.jpg

Whirlwind-style feat that hasn’t been posted yet
http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary10rd8.jpg

And the original whirlwind scan
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary22sj7.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary23zf1.jpg

Strength of Superman:
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.ph...61f64_posz4.jpg
...there’s also his famous arm wrestling stalemate to Supes

Added to KK's skill
Breaking Inerton, DC's adamantium:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y9...oyLSH231-28.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y9...oyLSH231-30.jpg
And this psychotic level of control: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y9...-Scanned-13.jpg

Transformo-lightning can cause damage
http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.ph...olt_batman1.jpg
http://img142.imagevenue.com/img.ph...olt_batman2.jpg
These scans may require you to click past ads. They're worth it though.

Lightning not reverting Freddy back
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cmj6or8.jpg

New scans that reinforce my soul assimilation. Please read.

A telepath named Dark Angel performs an exorcism of one of the beings inside of Minion that he had recently assimilated.
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angel12rm8.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angel13xb7.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angel14cv9.jpg
Tell me, can you perform an exorcism on synapse structures?

A dying person (last of her race) asks for assimilation to live on in Minion
http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh23zw7.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh24qd9.jpg
Minion comments on being able to let her out again someday. He knows his own powers. If it was just data, not the actual person, he would know he isn't actually preserving her inside of him.



4 independent sources. At what point do their objections to soul-assimilation ring hollow?


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Old Post Oct 9th, 2008 03:32 AM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

quote:
ACTUALLY. Since the default position for Mary and Freddy’s access to their power is "on" you'd have to get outside help from Shazam in order for him to turn it off. Shazam refusing to grant Mary/Freddy power would be illegal for Scoob and leo to argue for. HA!


i'll do more later, but a quickie here first--

this post and this tactic is utterly irrelevent. why? because in his PREP digi shut off his OWN powers when he turned jr and mary into their HUMAN counterparts to assimilate them. smile

every point and doubt we've raised about the lighning stands. wink


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Old Post Oct 9th, 2008 11:25 AM
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Hate to be a stickler, but leo's above post counts as a match post since he's making an argument.

Both squads are at 7 posts, by my count. I have 2 scans-only posts, but those don't count toward the regular 10.


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Old Post Oct 9th, 2008 04:21 PM
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