A bunch of liberals here, mostly all. Is there anything about our new woke culture that just seems over the top?
I've got a few, but I'll start with apparently anyone can interrupt any meeting at any time to do a "land acknowledgment" and everyone just has to go along with it. It's just like growing up in church, anyone can interrupt anything to ask to pray... Some things we do now are very much liberal church. What bothers you?
because liberals totally use phrases like "too woke"
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Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.
I'd say I'm a woke liberal voter who is just starting to think that a few things we are subscribing to are too much. There is very much an all or nothing opinion about liberal platforms right now. Cancel culture (started by conservatives in the 80s and 90s with their boycotts) is very much a thing, and not a great thing. As a liberal, I think we need to pump the brakes a little on a few platforms. So I guess my question is: as liberals, are there any liberal positions you think are too much?
Fatphobic idealogy kind of does real harm to people.
Being fat simply isn't healthy. Maybe you can argue against unproductive shaming, acceptance is a step too far imo, and is literally killing people.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
just seems like "how much acknowledgement of history and reality is too much"?
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Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.
I mostly disagree. Woke was twisted and made into a dirty word by the Right. It's also largely not what people think it is.
Like Critical Race Theory, the Right literally twisted that into some nonsense monster and applied it to the Left, claiming it was being taught to kindergartners and that it meant "White people bad". Both lies.
But in the spirit of your thread, I find the refer to me as "they/them" to be silly. I'm fine if someone does not want to identify as a he/him or she/her, but you're not two people. Maybe "other" is a better choice. I'll still call someone "them/they" if they wish, cost me nothing, but I reserve the right to think it's silly.
The truth is, "woke" is just about pandering. Doesn't matter what the ideology actually is, what matters is how all the media pundits, politicians, and pressure groups spin things.
Take the Will Smith slapping Chris Rock thing? Why do you think they didn't have security escort him out for it?
Because they were in a "sell to target audience" mindset, that's why.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Wrong. Maybe what you think "woke" means here, but reality and you often don't play in the same sand box.
Reality: "Woke - aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)"
Like acknowledging that this country still has an issue with systemic racism. eg where a Black person is more likely to get a harsher sentence than a White people for the same crime. Especially a Black man.
So I think land acknowledgements are silly. That's pretty much what sparked this thread.
My two cents on pronouns: I don't think they/them is silly, but I did hear someone say the other day that "at this point, I know people who are getting my pronouns wrong at this point don't care about gender inequality*. And that frustrated me a bit, because I'm only going to know someone's pronouns if I actually care about them. It's just an extra piece of information to remember about someone when there are plenty of people out there who I'm lucky to remember their names, if that makes sense...
It isn't that I don't care about gender inequality, I just don't care about YOU enough to care how you identify, if that makes sense. There are plenty of people I interact with everyday that I don't know well enough to care about what they identify as. I don't need to know and don't care one way or another. But by insisting on proper pronoun usage from people who are essentially strangers-- I just don't get it. I'm careful and happy to use proper pronouns with my friends, but as far as daily acquaintances that I don't know, and don't care to know, it seems like pronouns shouldn't come up. I hope I've explained that well. I don't know anything about you, why are pronouns important at that point? I've had people whose name I don't even remember correct me on pronouns... Like if I don't care enough to remember your name, why should I remember your pronouns? I'm always going to try, I'm not using incorrect pronouns on purpose, ever, but chances are if I get it wrong, it simply doesn't matter to me how you identify, so it never crosses my mind, I guess.
I'd say CRT is an example of not being too Woke. As I said, I'm liberal, I agree with all the things liberals agree with- I just think in just some cases we are starting to go to far, and we are making it impossible for honest discussion because of a very heavy handed "agree with everything, or be considered part of the problem."
Also I don't consider woke a dirty word, and consider myself woke and proud of it. I just think we need some introspection into some things.
Last edited by truejedi on Oct 7th, 2022 at 09:24 PM
Despite the diligent efforts of some, I do not think asking or offering pronouns as a matter of course is going to catch on.
The vast majority of people, including binary transgender people, want to be gendered according to their expression, and do not feel the need to clarify their pronouns.
This issue is really only important to a tiny number of people whose gender is not immediately apparent from their appearance; primarily non-binary people, a population so tiny, that most people will never meet someone who is non-binary.
What I think will happen is that the onus will shift to the outliers to declare their pronouns upon meeting someone, which is where it should be.
If you do not use male or female pronouns, and you wish to be gendered correctly, then you have the responsibility to share your pronouns with others.
The rest of us do not need to declare our pronouns as a matter of course just to make you feel better about being different, which you are.
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Oct 7th, 2022 05:56 PM
