How much of the plot will Jackson screw with THIS time? (spoilers)
Well, honestly, I was a little disappointed by the way that Peter Jackson redid half the plot of the second book for the movie... in a completely unnecessary way, really.
So, what have you been able to glean from trailers, etc. that will be screwed with in the third movie?
Here's what I have figured so far.
1) The Dunedain never come to assist Aragorn. It appears that he goes into the caves alone with Legolas and Gimli. I think this is *really* stupid; instead of having the freaking elves come help at Helm's Deep, Jackson could have at least had the Dunedain come early and assist in the battle. It would have made more sense, that's for sure.
2) Elrond gives Anduril to Aragorn?! That should have happened in the first book.
3) Galadriel and Frodo? That could be a flashback of some sort, in fact it probably is.
4) Scouring of the Shire is removed. I guess it was pretty anticlimatic to the whole book, but it was interesting nonetheless. I wonder what he has in store for Saruman, then.
5) More unnecessary, irrelevant, and dull Arwen garbage.
Perhaps I'm a bit of a "official book material Nazi" but the events could have played out the way Tolkein wrote them and would have worked just fine. If anything, Jackson's changes add some plot holes and inconsistencies.
it work fine only because you have read the book.
peter jackson have to think about those who haven't even heard of it.
so far i think he haven't screw anything, to adapt a book that could last god knows how many hours, and so full of details and hisotry, into movies that could stand on it's own, and is understandable and appealling to ppl who have never heard of it before is not an easy feat.
but i supposed if you are really into the book u might be a bit offended by the changes, but just remember how many ppl start reading the books because of the movies.
sometimes you just gotta look at it separately, and enjoy it on it's own.
and u've gotta to admit that he did a really good job with the location like the shire and rivendel, and the casting.
__________________ i don't mean to sound distasteful but when did you start crapping money?
Sure, the book had to be condensed. But there are some changes that just make me think "What the hell?!" For instance:
1) The Warg attack. It wasn't in the book. It wasn't completely necessary. If it weren't for that, they could have gotten more of the second book in the second movie. If they put all of the second book in the second movie, they could focus more on the cool stuff in the third book (some of which they will have to cut out because there will be leftovers from the second book there).
2) The Elves coming to save the day. It doesn't make much sense. The Elves don't really care about what happens to the humans in Rohan. Aragorn's rangers, however, do care. It would have made lots more sense to have them come a little early and participate in the battle, then later join in the battles from the third book.
3) Elrond coming to bring Aragorn the sword. Why couldn't it be reforged at Rivendell and given to him there? There would be no problems with that.
4) The battle at Helm's Deep, with 300 people -- mostly peasants -- vs. 10,000 orcs. I find that more than a little unbelievable. The battle in the book wasn't quite so "desperate." There were plenty of soldiers there (though they were quite outnumbered) and such a battle would be more believable.
5) The Ents. The Ents decide to attack Isengard at their meeting in the book. The Ents, supposedly, know what is going on in their forest and are quite aware of Saruman's tree-chopping. In fact, in the book, they arrive pretty soon after the Orcs leave Isengard and a good portion of them follow the Orcs to Helm's Deep and kill the ones that retreat after Gandalf shows up. Due to the nature of the Ents, this would have made plenty more sense.
Here are a few things that I guess I don't have problems with.
1) Arwen. Her role in the books was practically nonexistant, and people would be confused if she showed up for two minutes. It still doesn't make sense that she was going to leave.
2) Eomer not being present at Helm's Deep. In the book, he is present with a good amount of his men. Gandalf, instead, shows up with 1,000 men on foot from the eastern fiefs led by a guy who was mentioned only briefly before. I suppose it would have been confusing if a bunch of people showed up in the movie and nobody had any idea who they were. I still disagree with the other aspects of the battle, though.
Yeah, when i was watching the trailer, i was like, hold on, wtf? Well, maybe Elrond giving the sword to aragorn was a flash back..... well probably not because we didn't see it before, but that is definately screwed up.
The Warg attack thing, it was just an excuse really to have an Aragorn and Arwen flashback, that was pretty much the whole purpose, but we could have definately scratched that....
Wait, Eomer not being present at Helm's Deep, I thought that Gandalf came back with he and his little army that was exiled, i am very confused, maybe i just assumed that it was him and his little army...
Oh I see, the wargs unneeeded eh? **** that. Where else do we get to see wargs in LOTR? We don't. Now DON'T tell me you never wanted to see a battle with them when you was reading the book.
Seriously, all you people complaining - get a ****ing life. I would love to have seen you make them movie and have it fail miserably. YES, that is what WOULD have happened if Jackson had followed the book precisely.
hey, i meant scratch the aragorn and arwen scene, i liked the wargs those were interesting, and anyway, i came in here to have a simple conversation on what peter jackson was going to do with the movie, i don't necessarily agree that he has screwed up the movie... why don't you grow up, that was my opinion so deal with it, don't tell me to grow up because i explained my opinion, if you don't agree with it, get out, and make your own thread saying how much you think peter jackson did a good job, and he did, then there will be no critizing your opinion.
Have you actually read the title of the thread? Do you not see why I was saying Grow Up? I was giving MY opinion also and I DID NOT tell any of you to "Get Out". If you don't like your opinion's critiscised m8, then you're in the wrong place.
hey, i don't like it when people tell me to grow up, especially when it's because they don't agree with my opinion. i think by now people should understand that you need to accept other people's opinions.
i personally think peter jackson has done a AWESOME job on the lord of the rings triology, hes brought tolkiens books to life! Now if he would of stuck with the whole book, the movie would be over 6 or more hours, pretty soon, people will get tired and walk out of me, me..personally would sit there through the whole movie if he did the whole entire book as a movie because im soo drawn and hooked to lord of the rings
Now...the warg attacks to me were VERY awesome to see, very exciting, very great, i loved it, my dad even loved that part, and the scene wasnt just to have a arwen and aragorn flashback, you saw saruman sending them out, it wasnt used for a arwen and aragorn flashback, i thought it was a incredible scene!
The ents attacking isenguard was a spectacular scene, i was absoulutly thrilled the way the ents stood up for themselves and took action against saruman, that scene got me all excited, and i was cheering them on, you should of seen me!
The scouring of the shire, although i havent gotten to that part yet, i hear from different people that its a very good and very interesting and then from some..that its not! Its just too bad its not gonna be in there
Battle of helms deep to me was VERY exciting, and VERY interesting, i was so drawn and i was cheering and go ballistic throughout those scenes, it was amazing! I cant wait for more battle scenes in return of the king!
Arwen, as much as ALOT of you dont like her and hate the storyline with her and aragorn, i disagree, nothing is wrong with her or the storyline, i think its a lovely and inspiring storyline, and i really like the arwen character, shes strong as a elf, shes not afraid of anything, and she will do anything to stay with aragorn which involves giving up her immortal life for a mortal life just to be with him, to me..thats sweet and its beautiful, although its sad family wise, but still, if i was her, id do the same thing!
what confuses me though with two towers is...what happened to eowyn once the battle of helms deep started, i dont think it showed her anymore...either i missed something...or im just gonna have to watch again and see! (speaking of two towers, our preview channel has been showing two towers alot!)
All in all, peter jackson wont take out something that is huge out of the movie, im sure hes taking the little things out, not anything big, he hasnt screwed up anything for return of the king, hes working hard making it a incredible movie, and to me...return of the king is gonna be exciting, breathtaking, sad, amazing and everything, and i SOOO cannot wait till it comes out!!
;-)
__________________
"There are some things time cannot mend, some hurts that go too deep, that have taken hold"-Frodo
Watch Lost every Wednesday at 8pm on ABC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*walk out on it" made a typo not "walk out of me" LOL!
cant type today
__________________
"There are some things time cannot mend, some hurts that go too deep, that have taken hold"-Frodo
Watch Lost every Wednesday at 8pm on ABC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1) The Elves coming to save the day. It doesn't make much sense. The Elves don't really care about what happens to the humans in Rohan. Aragorn's rangers, however, do care. It would have made lots more sense to have them come a little early and participate in the battle, then later join in the battles from the third book.
2) Elrond coming to bring Aragorn the sword. Why couldn't it be reforged at Rivendell and given to him there? There would be no problems with that.
3) The battle at Helm's Deep, with 300 people -- mostly peasants -- vs. 10,000 orcs. I find that more than a little unbelievable. The battle in the book wasn't quite so "desperate." There were plenty of soldiers there (though they were quite outnumbered) and such a battle would be more believable.
4) The Ents. The Ents decide to attack Isengard at their meeting in the book. The Ents, supposedly, know what is going on in their forest and are quite aware of Saruman's tree-chopping. In fact, in the book, they arrive pretty soon after the Orcs leave Isengard and a good portion of them follow the Orcs to Helm's Deep and kill the ones that retreat after Gandalf shows up. Due to the nature of the Ents, this would have made plenty more sense.
I massively disagree with all your views, elchip. I just see this as another example of tiresome purism.
Book and film are different- what works well in book does not necessarily work well on film. Just accept that.
PJ has done an excellent job, all things considered.
Let me just take your four points there.
1. Of course the Elves care, just they do not have the resources. But he changed the storyline so ther were less humans but, presumably, more Elves, because this created greater drama for the scene and included the Elves who everyone loved. It made the scene more pipular
2. That fits the dramatic sweep he has made for Aragorn in the film far better. It was a necessary change to a more character driven storyline.
3. Again, this was done for the need of drama. It in no way ruins the scene- it just better fits the way it was done and people ADORED that battle
4. This one is a particularly bad point to raise. This whole sequence if done literally from the book would have been as dull as ditchwater. Merry and Pippin have to DO something, not just observe, that is no fun in a film. You say that that way would make more sense to the nature of the Ents. IN THE BOOK. But in the film, PJ changed that nature so that Merry and Pippin had something to DO in that sequence by persuading them to come help.
I am very glad PJ- ass big a fan as Tolkien as any of us- did this project and not someone who thinks like you or the films, trying to tie themselves to the book's narrative, would be far worse for it.
Now, if you want what happens in the book- go read the book. Other than that you will have to accept the film for what it is- a triumph, and a gift to everyone, not simply a thing to please book fans.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Oct 22nd, 2003 at 01:53 PM
KMC Community Forums
Oct 19th, 2003 06:50 AM
Well, maybe Elrond giving the sword to aragorn was a flash back..... well probably not because we didn't see it before, but that is definately screwed up. 
