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Originally posted by unknowable
Makes sense, but their fighting in an unbiased universe,

Second, he/she who holds the Spear, becomes invulnerable to any attack, especially from angels.

And if you read the first few posts you'l see that the Spear was used by a nobody to bash the Mighty Spectre nearly to death, but the interesting thing is, the more magically inclined the wilder, the more powerful still the Spear becomes.

This was the debate, if average joes can kill the Spectre with it, what are the possibilities if it where in the hands of earth's sorcerer supreme.

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Originally posted by JohnR
. They didn't create the universe by using God's power, they created the universe by using their own power. This feat was duplicated again when Lucifer's universe was created and again by Elaine (Michael's daughter) when she created her own universe.

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Originally posted by long pig
I don't see Lucifer being capable of tricking Strange.

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Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Their power is derived from God. When Yahweh abandoned creation both Michael and Lucifers powers went on a downward spiral. They were left vulnerable.

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Originally posted by unknowable
The exact nature and extent of the Spear’s powers remain ambiguous. However, even those with no formal magical training have been able to use it to produce world-altering effects. Aside from the Sphere of Influence, Adolf Hitler used the Spear’s power to summon a flight of real, tangible valkyries and, in April 1945, nearly succeeded in unleashing the devastation of Gotterdamerung onto the Earth and bringing about the end of the world. Others with no mystical inclination have nearly succeeded in destroying the Spectre, one of the DC Universe’s most powerful magical entities, by simply using the Spear as a melee weapon. The Sphere of Influence itself was an extremely formidable spell, capable of automatically controlling the minds and wills of the most powerful metahumans and sorcerers at tremendous distances without even requiring the conscious volition of the Spear’s wielder. It should be noted, however, that the Sphere was created by Hitler in partnership with a Japanese occultist called the Dragon King and bolstered with the power of the Holy Grail. A feat of such magnitude may not be possible without the assistance of a more competent magic-user.

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Originally posted by JohnR
Their powers don't come from Yahweh except in the sense that Yahweh's name maintained creation. When he left, creation start to dissolve.

I'm not saying Lucifer or Michael are equal to God; they're not. But they're powerful enough to create universes. Unfortunately, they need "something" to live in. If creation fades, they'd be wiped out also.

Michael could have maintained the original creation and Lucifer could have maintained his own creation if it wasn't for Fenris infecting Yggdrasil, one of the pillars creation was built on. Elaine, with the power that was once Michael's, created her own universe and folded the other two universes into it to preserve them.

So it's not a matter of power so much as existence. Yahweh was greater than "existence," but Lucifer, Michael, and Elaine weren't. Given existence, however, they're all virtually omnipotent.

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Originally posted by Juntai
The National Interest sent a super villain to retrieve and use it against the Spectre,

Wasn't a supervillian

Superman used it against the Spectre, Captain Marvel used it against the Spectre.

True.

The whole "No magical inclination" thing is irrelivent, because it's still NOT talking about NORMAL beings.

Not irrelivent, the magically inclined wielder can extract even greater power from the Spear, unless you write for DC, and can overwrite stories,characters and weapons with DC co. validation, please don't write that.

But like I said, it turns anyone who wields it evil and insane and they suffer from severe delusions.

That was when the Spear was imbued with Hitler's madness, it's been purified since then by the Sentinals of Magic.

He wouldn't beat Spectre OR Lucifer with it, in a real situation, neither of them would opt for close quarters combat against a weapon that can physically kill anything.

Wonder how your "supervillian" and others got close to Spectre to smack him around.

Like I said though, it would be pure PIS, CIS for either of them to be defeated by the object though, as beings like this could simply wipe him from time-space as if he never existed.

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Originally posted by Mider
imagine of lucifer had the energy that micheal had if strange did infact try to kill him he would risk a explosion that would obliterate the universe.

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Originally posted by leonheartmm
actually id agree to him havin a CHANCE against micheal. cause micheal chooses to serve god n stay in his existance n order, lucifer however has surpassed his brother in power and will. he has his OWN CREATION, outside that of the voice's n i doubt that spear can kill him.

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"The National Interest sent a super villain to retrieve and use it against the Spectre."
Wasn't a supervillian

quote:

That was when the Spear was imbued with Hitler's madness, it's been purified since then by the Sentinals of Magic.

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"He wouldn't beat Spectre OR Lucifer with it, in a real situation, neither of them would opt for close quarters combat against a weapon that can physically kill anything."

Wonder how your "supervillian" and others got close to Spectre to smack him around.

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Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm, i didnt see nethin that said that their powers decrease, nuthin was mentioned, their powers are their own, not yahweh's

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Originally posted by leonheartmm
no he left without a letter of passage when he killed micheal, also lucifer has his OWN creation now.