Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
Huh?! Not the one to do it? That's simply baffling. It's a movie just like any other why shouldn't it be given it's right do?
Two wrongs don't make a right? Who gave IMDB the right to crown The Godfather and Shawskank (yes, I spell it wrong intentionally) number one? You? Me? Everyone. People voted. It's a democracy. Simple as that...sorry BF but if you want it otherwise then move to communist china.
What an atrocious form of thinking...then why not give it to all Charles Chaplin or Buster Keaton movies then? They been known for ages and certainly known were here before IMDB was establish. If you want to talk about seniority you're picking the wrong side with Shankshaw and The Godfather. Again, who gave IMDB such powers? You? Me?...oh you know the rest.
For all these Brouhaha here...how does The Dark Knight even damage the reputation of The Godfather or Shankyshawhawhee? Because IMDB move it to #1? OH NOEZ! Call the President! Send the Marines! The sky is falling. The Dark Knight takes NOTHING away from those films. It certainly doesn't change their stories in any way possible. They're still good films. Rather than spying and trying gossip why not welcome the new neighbor? That's seems the logical thing to do.
Instead of blowing steam people should be happy they're getting what is consider a "modern classic" a film that surpases it's own genre and delivers an excellent story of justice, mayhem, and human life in our current times.
__________________
Last edited by WanderingDroid on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 04:34 PM
Gender: Male Location: The epitome of my evolution.
Account Restricted
ugh... how overrated. I've seen the movie twice now, and I can say that I think it has the potential to be best movie of the year, and that Ledger should get an Oscar, it wasn't all that great of a movie.
IMO, it was too busy and in a movie called Batman, the main character, Batman, shouldn't get completely upstaged by a supporting main character. Seriously, Christian Bale's acting was stiff, boring, and utterly unemotional compared to... pretty much everyone else's. I watched it the second time in IMAX, and at the near end of the movie, people started booing when [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Batman gave his little speech about how "the people" of Gotham showed this and took a stand and showed that. Because it was just so stiff and boring compared to all the other awesome diologue that had been said in the movie up to that point. I understand that the Joker's personality is a lot more charismatic and has more pazaz then Bruce's so it's expected to be less boring, but c'mon.
So meh. I thought the movie was excellently done, but nowhere near even the top ten best movies of all time, and not even the best comic book movie. For me that's tied between Iron Man and Spiderman 2.
Just got back from my second viewing. I think it deserves all the money and attention its getting because the movie is top notch, but after seeing it after the hype, I cant place it as the best movie ever, definitely best movie this year, but not on a grand scale compared to every other movie ever made.
I liked Joker's progression from 'average' guy in a suit for the bank job, to buying some better clothes after the bank job, having the mob hire him and finally taking over/destroying their money/killing the leaders. That connection between Joker and the mob was more interesting to me than any of the other story arcs in the film. The downside to it was that he basically did more to finish up the mob than Batman/Harvey did together. Since the mob are basically the backbone of the movies in the sense that they bought out judges/lawyers/cops etc and are responsible for pretty much all of Gotham's crime, the next movie should be interesting to see whether they still have any impact with most of them being killed off and all their money being destroyed.
As Joker mentioned about a new class of criminal, I'd like to see the next movie expand on that so instead of having gangsters doing it for the money they'd be doing it solely for the corruption and chaos. In my mind I'd want to see someone like Harley Quinn acting as Joker's sidekick while he sits in jail, she'd be responsible for leading the criminals and eventually help Joker break out of jail, where he'd take over again. But this wouldnt happen until about 3/4 of the movie so we arent oversaturated by more of the Joker.
There is no way that Iron Man is better than this movie in my mind. Iron Man didn't even have a decent villain fight and The Dark Knight made all other comic book movies IMO look like...well comic book movies. The Dark Knight felt like it was a crime drama. You could easily take Batman out and put a detective in his place and wipe the make up off the Joker's face and it could have just been a great crime movie. It was well acted and it had everything in it...well the romance was lacking but still, lol
And you can't say The Dark Knight doesn't deserve to be number 1 on IMDB because it meet the standards required, it was ranked highly by the most people. You might not agree that it is the best movie ever, but as far as IMDB users are concerned, apparently it is to them.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
Selina: No darker than yours, Bruce
Last edited by SelinaAndBruce on Jul 23rd, 2008 at 07:23 PM
What's baffling about it? I don't agree that Dark Knight deserves to be number one for the reasons stated. And me saying this, going against popular opinion because I don't happen to agree with it, means I am comparable to a communist? That's a huge amount of idiocy. As if by not agreeing with public opinion you are somehow against democracy. Sadly, I'm not all that surprised that you'd make such a stupid leap of logic.
Why do you have such a problem with me simply saying that I don't agree with Dark Knight being number one on IMDB? Put the fanboy horseshit away if you're going to attempt to debate something, and also actually retort to what I said in a reasonable manner. I liked the film very much, but I don't think it's the best film ever made and the amount of praise it's getting is quite silly.
IMDB didn't crown Shawshank and Godfather great films, they've been considered great films long before IMDB came around, Godfather especially. Whether you or I agree about those two films being great aside, they earned that distinction by being loved by people for decades, and still talked about and cherished by their fans. They didn't come out and mysteriously shoot to the top based on pure hype, it took years before those were actually considered great films. Dark Knight, on the other hand, shot up to number 4 before the movie even came out. If that's not fishy and reeking of blind hype, I don't know what is. In fact, I'm beginning to think that a number of the votes were 'plants' from the studio, since they occurred before the film was actually viewable.
I know you have trouble grasping simple arguments, but I'm shocked that even you had trouble getting my point that a film shouldn't be considered the best film ever made before it's had time to fully sink it. I don't think this idea is particularly controversial, what's wrong with waiting a bit before proclaiming a film the best ever? See how they like it on the second viewing, see if it still has the impact it originally had, see how it ages, and so on. Not an unreasonable idea at all
And only you, WD, would attempt to exaggerate the premise of this idea to the point of ridiculousness by claiming that I'm somehow saying that that means old movies are inherently the best. I said nothing of the sort. Either read more slowly or take a god damn reading comprehension class, it's embarrassing for you and annoying for me when you massively miss my point and exaggerate what I say like that, I don't know if that's some fallacious strategy you do to try and make your opponents argument worse than it is or if you genuinely don't know any better. It matters not, it's obnoxious.
I wondered where I'd seen this exact situation before, then realised as it all came flooding back.
I will see The Dark Knight on...August 1st. I expect it to be overrated, simply because to not be, it would have to be the best movie I've ever seen, and it won't be.
I loved Iron Man but the Iron Man v Iron Monger fight was extra lame. The best scene in Iron Man was his two show downs in the desert and the "Training exercise". The Iron Monger fight was laughably bad IMO. Even the final fight in the Incredible Hulk was way better than that.
Batman's final showdown was more than just the dogs and the Joker. He fought the SWAT team and saved those hostages on several different floors before he got to the Joker. He and the Joker's showdown was never really a physical one it was more a psychological game for the both of them and that monologue was gold.
But the Dark Knight is the best movie based on a Comic book, I think it's prolly the best reviewed as such on Rotten Tomatoes as well. It made all the other movies based on comic books seem completely juvenile IMO...and I say this as someone who was HIGHLY skeptical of all the praise the movie was receiving at first.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
No, you've missed the point. You were complaining that it didn't deserved to be on top spot with movies like The Godfather and Shaky. I pointed out that imdb runs on a democratic voting system that allows members to cast their votes. Then, I exaggerated (in a comical way) the thing by telling you to move to communist china. Sorry BF, but I think, you're taking this way too seriously. That's even more sad. And you know me...I call it as I see it.
No, YOU put the fanboy horseshit away first. You're the one blowing steam because you see TDK going to the top and stand next to movies like Godfather and Shank. Which pins you as fanboy of those movies. If you were a reasonable as you claim to be you would be like "Oh, geez it's imdb nothing important" You feel IMDB now sucks because of that....yet you ignore the factor that it is voted by their own members. To a fanboy everything sucks or is broken when something else (other than what they love) gets the spotlight.
You like TDK...You like Shawnshank.....good, what's the big deal?
Lies and complete lack of knowledge. Again, I call it as I see BF. As I mention before there are other great films out there that didn't get the top spot.
Why you act like Shawshank is all of the sudden the messiah of prison movies? Give me a break and what a crock of nonsense!
See these films (which I have if you're interested):
Bird man from Alcatraz.
Cool Hand Luke.
Papillon
Those are also great classic films. Why aren't they in the top with Shawshank? they have as much right as Shawshank to be there. Yet they're not in the top spot. They were there before Shawshank was even made. Remenber what I said about seniority? Throw me back that pitch of "love by people by decades"
How many decades have shawshank redemption have gone?
Thank you! Go see the three other films I mention.
No, and using those childish and lame tactics of trying to belittle the person's reasoning will get you nowhere with me.
You been missing the point since page one! You come here and whine about how the IMDB system is broken and is not fair and all that! Why? Because you see Shawshank scale down. So what? Why don't you reason that there have other movies prior to Shawnshank that didn't get their right do. Where was protest for them? where was the outcry for injustice? where...oh you get the idea (I hope!) Either you haven't seen other prison movies in your life or you're just a fanboy for the movie. You're the one with the baby rattle, not me.
And to save the best for last.
In your desperation to make TDK lesser to previous top films of IMDB you now run to conspiracy theory. Congrats BF! You've sunken your foot on the mud so deep that anyone can see your footprints.
I'm going to quote myself again in hopes you and others get the point:
Anyone who takes IMDB top ten films of all time as a hierarchy is seriously a babbling imbecile in my book.
You know me. I call it as I see it.
In closing....(I have a long day at Comic con and I need to get in line for the TDK IMAX) if you like TDK and you like M, Shawshank, The Godfather, Cool Hand Luke, and whatever....that's good. One is above the other....that's personal opinion.
Learn to tell the difference between your favorite things and the opinions of others. Which ever films deserves to be on top of another is a matter of opinion and nothing more. You love it and hold a special place in your heart.
Hohoho...that's good for you.
__________________
Last edited by WanderingDroid on Jul 24th, 2008 at 03:57 PM
With all due respect, his point wasn't that I.M.D.B. is important, it WAS precisely that it's all opinion, and he disagrees with the fact that The Dark Knight is being rated this highly by so many people, hence; over-rated.
Saying something doesn't deserve to be put next to something else doesn't make you a fanboy.
If you said The Flash deserves to be ranked up there with Superman in terms of comic icons, I'd disagree. It's not because I am a Superman fanboy, it's because objectively, with no allegiance to either, I find it to be a ridiculous opinion.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't even like The Godfather, just appreciates that it excels in far more areas, technically, as a movie, to be ranked next to The Dark Knight, so this is a case like I just explained. I mean, nobody is wrong for saying it's their favourite movie above anything, I'm pretty sure BF likes The Dark Knight more than The Godfather, but objectively you (In general) surely can't propose that The Dark Knight has done, or will do, as much for cinematic history as The Godfather has.
Show me what point I've missed. You say that several times throughout this post but never specify, why? Because I missed no point. Your points aren't complex enough to miss. And I never said that it didn't deserve to be up there with Godfather and Shawshank, I simply said it didn't deserve to be number one, in my opinion.
This part is funny because I don't even like The Godfather. And I don't think Shawshank is one of the best films ever made (but I like it). So, no, no fanboyism here. Can't be a fanboy of something that I don't even like, and again, my complaints aren't with TDK being seen as better than Shawshank and Godfather, simply that it's rated the number one movie of all time. And I simply don't think it's that good. IMDB always sucked, nothing but a popularity contest and a hype game, TDK getting to number one just reinforces this. There is no big deal about this. You're the one that made it an issue by going after me for simply not agreeing with it. Here's how the discussion went.
Me: The Dark Knight shouldn't be number one, I don't think it's the best movie ever made. People should let the film sink in and let the hype die down before making such extreme statements about it.
You: Baffling! If you don't like it move to china! It's a democracy! What an atrocious thought process! You're saying that a movie that is older is going to be better!
You tell me where the fanboyism is in my post. Because it's clear where yours is.
Show me where I lied. Specifically. And I know there are other great films that aren't in the top spot. You said this like 3 days ago in this very thread, and I agreed. What does this have to do with TDK being ranked number 1?
This was never said, nor was it implied, by any of my posts. And you call me a liar.
They aren't in the top because IMDB is shit and a popularity contest. I know what you said about seniority, it was a random point that you made and attempted to spin to seem like I made it, despite the fact that I never did. But yes, I'm the liar.
Apparently you need an English course to go with that reading comprehension course, since you are struggling to create simple sentences.
I will stop shitting on your reasoning when your reasoning stops being shit.
This was also never said. All I said is that I didn't agree with TDK being rated so highly. Also again, point out what point of yours I missed, if you can.
I think there are still some slots open. Better hurry.
I didn't protest anything, I never said there was injustice. I simply said that I didn't agree with TDK being the best movie ever made. Your hyperbole isn't going to change what I actually said, and you're again pretending that I said things that I never did.
And that's a nice false dilemma there (don't expect you to know what that is). It might work had I said or implied that Shawshank is the best prison movie ever made. But I didn't. And I never accused you of having a baby rattle, simply of being a fanboy. Not because you like TDK, but because you got so defensive when I challenged the notion of TDK being the best movie ever made.
So you're unaware of the fact that studios have done this before on IMDB, huh? Create a falsely high rating in the days before the movie's been released? Don't blame you, it's pretty ridiculous, but it happens. And it makes sense in this case, since there were thousands of votes for the film 2 days before the first midnight showing.
Sure is. Good thing I don't, and never implied that I did.
Point me to where I said that anything I say about a film is anything other than opinion. I know it's opinion. All I did was voice my opinion in a polite and decent manner, and you took issue with it and went after me for it. Now you're attempting to lie and claim that I said it as something more than opinion. This never happened.
I don't get why argue about it. The ranking is decided by IMDB.com users. More users gave this movie a high rating than did the Godfather for whatever reason. Therefore the movie is number 1. It may not be the best movie that was ever made but according to the majority opinion of the people who use that website it is, so o well. It's not that big of a deal.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
The only reason it has hit the top spot is because IMDB regular clientele are more likely to be the sort of net nerds who have been hit by the overwhelming hype for The Dark Knight and simply spammed the rating as 10 out of 10 without any intelligent thought going into it.
Every internet based voting system is the same- a HUGE bias gets shown towards the movie (or whatever the subject it) of the moment. Accurate results ONLY come over time.
BF is right. You'll have to wait. Give it a year.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
Congrats BF by quoting you and replying I exceed it 10,000 characters. And don't feel like like making two posts and continue. So whatever I missed....tough.
Your own words:
Good! We're clear, is not the best film ever made. You like it and that should be good enough. So there shouldn't be any issues with the film getting drop from the imdb spot....eh, wait a minute! If you like the film Why even care where is rank? Heck! why even care about what imdb ranks it? Moving on...
Oh good, you agree with me....happy days.
Exactly! IMDB ratings are is shit. We agree. Why are we arguing in the first place?
Yes Backfire...unlike you I'm not perfect. I have my flaws. What can I say? I'm not perfect.
So you're interested in mud slinging and just want to throw the biggest mud rock in your camp. Then here is a modest suggestion. Throw your biggest one and you won. Happy now?
That's an opinion I can live with. You the other hand can't live with the opinion of mine regarding movies on the top ten of imdb. This is what started this exchange.
I know, you already said that. I heard you the first time. Why are you repeating yourself? Are you some kind of parrot?
*SQWWAAK!* *SQWAAK!* POLLY WANTS A CRACKET! POLLY WANTS A CRACKER! YOO-HOO!
(I can pay you with the same coin BF. Don't confuse this forum with the GDF...go play your smartass gimmicks with those guys)
You didn't seen to be too happy in your earlier posts.
In it's own genre (i.e. comic book movies) TDK can be consider the best one yet. In it's own genre Shawshank Redemption (prison movies) it's not. There are three very good candidates that I mention earlier. Go see them.
Show me proof. Something else aside from your own word or some blog of a pissoff Godfather fan.
I went after you....uh-huh...who quote who first in this thread Backfire? Tell me again who call out who in this thread.
Thank you. I will and you need to be here as well. Hopefully you can make the trip. Don't miss out.
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
It's just a bunch of "chest thumping". The argument basically boils down to what you said. Really, nothing more, so I don't see why he keeps coming back.
Oh! Ush is visiting the Batman forum.
Have a seat, have some coffee....
I don't think there is no need to wait for anything. It really isn't that BIG of a deal. It's just a movie that got a lot of positive feedback. It's not the film's fault that it landed on the top ten of some internet site.
What matters is what the films brings to the table. The gossip and other chit-chat really is just waste.
Think about this...eveyrone comes out saying "why is it getting 10 scores?"
Yet, no one complains because it gets a score of 1.
Neither extreme is right. Because of it...the rating system should just be void.
__________________
Last edited by WanderingDroid on Jul 25th, 2008 at 06:41 PM
WD, you ignore where I said this explaining that I don't care that Godfather and Shawshank were knocked down.
I don't care, I simply don't agree, that's all. That's all it's ever been.
Because you said this -- and then you proceeded to lie about what I said, claiming I introduced the premise that older movies are inherently better, even though I never said that. If you go back and read, most of the argument hasn't been about the dark knight, it's been about you misconstruing what I said and me correcting you about that.
Not asking you to be perfect, just for you to take a second to make sure that your sentences that can be read at first glance, rather than forcing the reader to sit there and try and figure out what the heck you mean.
Not interested in throwing mud. But if you respond rudely to me I will do the same right back to you. Also, pointing out poor reasoning isn't slinging mud.
No, what started this exchange is your rude and obnoxious post about communist china and lying about something that I didn't say about old movies being better. I could care less about your opinion about movies because I know that such opinions are subjective.
You misspelled cracker.
I was perfectly happy. I was simply disagreeing.
What does this have to do with anything I said? I know TDK is probably the best comic book movie ever made. What does that have to do with you lying again and saying that I implied that Shawshank is the best prison movie ever made. Again, I never said this. It's funny, you say I don't know the difference between opinion and fact, yet you act as if it's fact that Shawshank is worse than the other three prison movies you mention.
Why would I be reading a Godfather's fan blog? There is no proof, the evidence though, is in the fact that in some movies on IMDB, people start rating them very high and give them a falsely high rating in the days prior to it's release. This is before anyone would be able to see the movie. Studios do this to help the hype. They did it with Cloverfield and I Am Legend. And apparently they did it with Dark Knight. The difference is TDK rating didn't drop when people actually started watching the movie.
I quoted you. But my quote was polite and decent towards you. Yours was not. Yours was rude and obnoxious and filled with lies about what I actually said. You can't expect to lie about what someone said and not expect them to come at you hard about it. The lesson is, don't do it.
I won't be making it this year. I missed last year, too. Didn't really like it very much the last time I was there, and my friend who I usually hang out with while there isn't around these days. Are you going to be there any other days? Or was Thursday your only one?
KMC Community Forums
Jul 22nd, 2008 03:07 PM
I've seen the movie twice now, and I can say that I think it has the potential to be best movie of the year, and that Ledger should get an Oscar, it wasn't all that great of a movie. 
