Dooku wasn't needed, but I far more enjoyed his character than Darth Maul's. (I know everyone else is gonna disagree with this.) Christopher Lee....is just awesome. But it's a shame we never got to know him that well.
I would have rather seen Dooku as a Villian across all 3 films over Maul, but that's just me. Maul didn't have much to work with, other than the fact that he had great martial arts skills.
I think what would have worked quite well, was to introduce Dooku as sort of a background character in Episode I. Not anything huge, but someone we would remember at least, as a Jedi. Then have him reappear as the villian in Episode II, so the shock value could have been played well from the audience going "hey, I remember him." Would have made more sense then having some guy with gray hair, appear out of nowhere.
And Queeq, if we're to blame GL for all the bad acting...what are we to do with acting like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUBWxiu5cOo Does GL get credit for that? I doubt it, right? lol
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Last edited by Sith Master X on Aug 19th, 2010 at 07:11 PM
I dunno... it was sure better than the " my new empire" line... hehehe...
But well, yes, maybe we do. I know Ewan is a great actor, he has done amazing stuff in much smaller films, and in big films.... So why does he suck here occasionally? Good question. But I know the answer: let's blame Lucas.
Maul was better IMO, i wish they had kept his double bladed sabre a secret. by not showing it in the trailers or on the toys. it would of been such a cool surprise to see him turn it on for the first time not knowing it was double bladed. as it was it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
Yeah...I like the line alright, but Hayden's acting definitely doesn't shine during the Mustafar scenes.
I really wish the whole "turning to the dark side" thing was done a bit different. This is where I'll gladly start disagreeing with Lucas. lol
I love the movie, but I feel as though Anakin's turn to the dark side had nothing to do with the "dark side." It was all about Padme.
Ok, that's fine, at first...but I feel like we should have seen the Emperor slowly teaching Anakin how to actually use the dark side, and that the power and feeling it gives Anakin becomes similar to an addicting drug. It feels so good that slowly you lose yourself to it until there's no turning back. This would have made Anakin's story more tragic, knowing that the good Jedi inside of him is buried away now because of a seductive power that he lost himself to, not because he's angry at the Jedi and wants to save Padme.
Like I said, at first, saving Padme is fine. It gives him motive to seek this power....but I felt like toward the end of the movie, it shouldn't have even been about Padme anymore. I think she should have approached him on Mustafar, broken hearten and in tears, and as Anakin turns around, it's as if his heart is ice cold and he no longer has any emotional attachment to her or anyone....Because he's the most powerful force user, the dark side completely consumes him to the point now that he is reckless and out of control.
None of that "let's rule the galaxy together as husband and wife" stuff. Anakin want's everything to himself and will do anything at all cost to become more powerful.
Ok...so in a nutshell...lol, I just wanted to see Anakin lose sight of his objectives along the way as he falls to a dark power. It would have been more convincing that Obi-Wan "had to kill him." Because in no where in any of this was I convinced that Anakin had now fallen to the "dark side." One second he's good, then Mace falls out of a window, and now he's on his hands and knees selling his soul to the devil. No no no no no.
You overlook the fact that Lucas was building towards the idea of Darth Vader with every film; that was the idea with the henchmen, storywise. Darth Maul, Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus, General Grievous - all have an aspect of Vader to them. Maul couldn't be the public face that Dooku was with the Confederacy, or the military leader that Grievous was. And even if he had been around for III, he would have been sacrificed by Palpatine in his long bid to turn Anakin, just as Dooku was. There wouldn't have been this rematch you want.
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Yep, Anakin Skywalker was probably the weirdest character in all time and when he was played by Hayden, I personally couldn't understand him.
Episode I:Now this Anakin was the best understandable. He was a smart, good kid who does his homework, has a hobby of making droids and dreams of becoming a Jedi. Like a normal kid.
Episode II:Far more complicated Anakin. Now that he's Jedi dream is fulfilled and he is a Padawan, he dreams to be more. He is a Jedi, now he wants to be a bigger Jedi. He wants it quickly, as last time and starts to think Obi-Wan is holding him back. He also falls in love with Padme. Also, since he is clearly superior to the other Jedis, he starts being arrogant.
Episode III:The most complicated Anakin of all, this Anakin fears that somebody could take Padme away from him and that Padme will die and other stuff and starts looking for a way to save Padme and we already know that stuff and he fails, believes Obi-Wan and Padme are having an affair or sth.(Anakin has no brains since he was a kid, probably fell off a tree and landed on his head) and finds out that evil is the answer. Thus he finds new friends when being evil, slices the old ones into pieces(literally) and starts a new life.
Episode IV:Has become an evil mastermind.
Episode Vedicated himself of finding his son.
Episode VI:Finally knows that everything is Palpatine's fault and finally kills the moron.
I would of kept Maul all the way till the begining of episode III or even till the jedi show up to arrest Palps and Maul comes out to lend a hand. and just never had Dooku at all.
In EP1 There should of been no light sabre for Obiwan to cut Maul in half with. he could of just jumped over him and force pushed or kicked him into the hole. and Maul could of used the force to slow himself and land at the bottom.
One of the biggest complaints I hear about the Prequels is that the characters act like robots and not like humans, so therefore the audience can't relate or establish a connection to the character.
Yet, we have Darth Maul...a very non human character with horns on his head who barely speaks at all, he's got paint slobbered all over his face etc...But everyone wanted Maul in the other films and liked him as one of the best characters because he was a "bad ass."
Now, we have a far more compelling, human like character out of Christopher Lee as Count Dooku who actually speaks more than once in the film, and everyone said "he sucks."
I don't know. I can certainly relate more to Dooku's character than I can Maul's. We at least know he was a fallen Jedi. Do we ever even know what Maul was other than the fact that he was just some creepy bad guy with a double lightsaber who the Jedi will be no match for? Nope. But, TPM had to have a bad guy. We hadn't establish the Emperor yet so there had to be somebody running around with a red lightsaber so at the end of the movie there could be a lightsaber fight and some action. But I still hear all the time that Maul was the reedeming quality of TPM. Sure.
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Last edited by Sith Master X on Jan 1st, 2011 at 06:01 AM
Problem is though that neither Maul, nor Dooku have much character. Dooku had lots of potential though, and a great actor to play him. And yet, he was hardly used. Mentioned in opening scroll, we don't see him for two hours and then serves as a backdrop for a jumping jack version of Yoda. In EpIII he gets killed of right away. Too bad.
I believe GL was trying to make the point that Sidius' apprentices were disposable. He sent Maul to kill QGJ, not OB1. He needed OB1 alive to train Anakin. Then Dooku was another sacrifice to lead Anakin to the dark side, you see Dooku's shocked reaction when Palapatine tells Anakin to kill him. Dooku's like "This wasn't part of the plan, I was just supposed to enrage him.."
Sidius doesn't want a powerful apprentice who can kill him like he killed his master Plagueis, unless he has complete control of that apprentice as he had with Vader. He wanted Anakin as his apprentice from the day he was "born". Sidius manipulated events in Anakin's life to prepare him for apprenticeship and increase his control over the boy in stages over the decades. All the more reason why Vader's attack in RoTJ was unexpected. Sidius expected him to roll over and die just as his other apprentices did.
His other apprentices were brutally bisected/decapitated. The first quite unexpectedly. That's hardly rolling over and dieing.
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Originally posted by Lord Lucien No, he didn't. You just made that up.
LL, I like your style. Watch the fight closely. I haven't heard the commentary during the Maul duel, but if you watch the fight Maul concentrates on QJG until he kills him. Then it appears he could easily finish OB1, but doesn't. How about a force push while OB1 is hanging helpless from the ledge? How about instead of kicking the light saber over the edge he picks it up and throws it at OB1? It even looks like he realizes OB1's plan to obtain QGJ's saber yet does nothing to stop it. This suggests Sidius didn't want QGJ to train Anakin, so he sent Maul to kill him. He wasn't supposed to kill OB1 because Sidius wanted the reckless, rebel Jedi to train Anakin.
His other apprentices were brutally bisected/decapitated. The first quite unexpectedly. That's hardly rolling over and dieing.
If the theory above is correct, then Maul allowed himself to be killed by OB1. Count Dooku went along with the brilliant plan of allowing OB1 and Anakin to make their way to the "captured" Palpatine. How did Dooku think that would end? I think Dooku could've at least blurted out Sidius' plan before Anakin cut his head off... "Wait Anakin, this man has been manipulating you and trying to turn you to the darkside.." but no. Finally, Vader is laying there with his hand cut off, not 10 feet away when Sidius tells Luke to take his Father's place at his side. Sidius has no respect for his apprentices, he uses them to accomplish his plans then discards them.
Your speculations about the movie aside, at what point is it ever stated by Sidious or Maul that Qui-Gon was expendable and Obi-Wan required? Maul doesn't realize Obi-Wan's plan, he gets confused at why Obi-Wan is suddenly concentrating--hence the in-universe explanation as to why he didn't see that leap coming. And even if he did realize what was happening, do you really think Maul would be willing to sacrifice himself... so that Obi-Wan could survive to train Anakin... who would replace Maul as Sidious' apprentice... years down the road? That's pretty farsighted and generous of a Sith Lord.
The commentary of the movie and the fans' wishful thinking of the plot and characters don't mean anything to the movie itself.
"If the hypothesis above is correct" is what you mean. A theory has evidence behind it. A hypothesis has speculation. And there's no evidence for "Maul sacrificed himself".
Yeah. And there's a difference between having no respect for them or their lives, and expecting them to "roll over and die". None of his apprentices rolled over and died. They all fought long lightsaber battles against experienced opponents and only lost due to arrogance (Maul), and genuinely being defeated (Dooku and Vader). Rolling over and dieing is actually what Luke was doing against Palpatine--incidentally, after he refused to become his apprentice. He didn't even try to fight the Emperor--at least Maul, Dooku, and Vader put up a fight. Luke just let it happen. Like a Jedi. That's the kind of person that Palpatine expected to roll over and die.
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Last edited by Lord Lucien on Jul 12th, 2013 at 02:18 PM
I doubt it, right? lol
Aug 19th, 2010 07:06 PM
edicated himself of finding his son.
But, TPM had to have a bad guy. We hadn't establish the Emperor yet so there had to be somebody running around with a red lightsaber so at the end of the movie there could be a lightsaber fight and some action. But I still hear all the time that Maul was the reedeming quality of TPM. Sure. 
