The problem with your line of thought is that you are still trying to use once in a lifetime feats over the average. Tyrant doesn't have that many showings, so his average is much higher than the Flash's or Zoom's average (he doesn't even have one poor showing). On average, Tyrant destroys them easily. Perhaps you should discuss the rules with Bada or -Pr-, because you don't seem to understand that we debate using average showings, and not showings that have only been seen once or twice.
what the hell are you talking about? I'm not debating one time feats. Everyone one else is. Are you blind? Even you bring up one time feats, everyone does these days, except me. Flash is faster than light, in speed and reflexes. And that's not a one time feat. If he hits anything with those speeds then it's going to do some major damage. What does that have to do with one time feats? That's his everyday power. I'm not claiming Flash travels through time or some crazy bs like that. Yet you are a hypocrite. In the Surfer thread, carver, Vince , etc. were arguing of all the BS Surfer will do to Superman (one time feats too). Even things he has never done in battle (even against dr. Manhattan). Yet you were no where around to police the situation. Everyone did it, but when you think I'm doing it (which I'm not) you want to confront me about it? Am I that damn good of a debater where you fear me? I must be. With that said, One time feats fall under PIS if it is extremely out of the ordinary.
Finally,
You confuse the rule FULL CAPACITY with using average showings. Each character will fight WITH THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY AS SHOWN BEFORE. The key words are "as shown before". This has been the rule since forever. We don't use showings where characters are not fighting at their best (low showings) because it contradicts Full Capacity and they will not fight like that in a forum.
Even mentioning low end feats as evidence is called low balling and against the rules.
My argument is that flash or zoom would wtf pawn Tyrant in a forum because they have the power (through speed) to crush him. The kinetic energy of just getting hit by something traveling at ftl speeds is insane. And I'm not even going to mention the imp. And they can do it before he even acts. Otherwise, Tyrant can operate at ftl speeds and react and perform actions within nanoseconds or smaller.
If we went solely off showings and not what was discussed then Superman would be far stronger than high end cosmic beings. Lt wouldn't have the power to destroy a universe because he never shown it. There are better examples than this, but you get the point.
So I have absolutely no problem going solely off showings and ignoring what was discussed about a character and off panel events. But I'm not going to be sandwiched. I'm not going to argue with one person using ONLY showings and then against another using both Showings and what's being discussed. I don't care either way, as long as it's consistent.
In ALL his showings, Zoom has never shown the ability to increase his mass a la Flash. Not implied, not discussed. His powerset had always been said to be controlling the flow of time.
No Speedforce, etc.
With people like Odin, LT, Mxy et al, they at least have the powerset 'do anything they want'. If they want to create a hammer so powerful, not even they can lift it, so be it. If they want to snap their fingers and destroy worlds, so be it. If they want to amp their strength and durability up, so be it....because they have the showings to back up their abilities.
Zoom has no such ability. And has not been shown. What you're suggesting is a no limits fallacy.....
I think your team wins it right there!although I think Thanos is mid-low sky father,and Morg/with waters of life is between hearald and sky father level.8th day juggs would be on this level too.so if you are going to allow amped guys,than yes this team wins.
For the outside observer, Zoom IS MOVING FAST. Remember, time is relative only to the observer.
Speed is distance over time. Manipulating time is manipulating speed.
So, for the object or being that is getting struck by zoom, zoom's fists will have extra mass. But for Zoom, his fists would have normal mass.
It was discussed that relativity exists in the D.C. universe. This was the reason why Superman was able to imp. The speedforce has nothing to do with it, just like it doesn't have anything to do with relativity in REAL LIFE. So any object that moves under the speed of light will increase their mass.
It was never discussed that Odin can snap his fingers and destroy worlds or he is able to amp his strength or durability.
So if you manipulate distance, you too manipulate speed?
Rip Hunter can also imp?
Note how I didn't just have Odin, why did you only focus on him?
Batman vs Mxy, bench press contest. One, according to you, is 1 ton in strength. The other casually destroys multiverses. So using your strict rules, Batman would win.
Note I said your strict rules, and I'm not referring to showings vs discussions.
When I say your rules, I'm referring to the idea that suspension of belief only applies to arguments you like.
You say Odin (only focussing on one guy) has never shown the ability to amp his strength.
Yet, he can shake galaxies in fights.
He can create enchantments so powerful no one can break.
He can headbutt Galactus.
He can grow to massive sizes (and in comics, especially Marvel, size equals strength and durability).
Zoom...has never shown or been discussed to increase his mass. Even when he was smacking Wally around at full speed, Wally wasn't being hit by those masses. And Wally was near light speed.
You are falling into the usual trap of ignoring comics, sitting down with your Science and Mechanics for Dummies' textbook, and a handbook description of their powersets....then extrapolating.
No. He can only travel through time, not manipulate it. To be specific, one must be able to slow the flow of time without changing their observed velocity in order to become fast. Think about it. If a character travels a large distance in a short amount of time (relative to the outside observer) then they are indeed traveling fast to the outside observer. They just are not traveling fast to their own observation.
Because he was most likely the only error in your post. The other beings I'm not so sure.
If we don't use rules then we would be allowed to make up any powers we want for a character. Superman would be able to shrink himself to the size of an atom because I said so.
With that said, mxy was shown to be able to increase his strength.
He can create beings stronger than Batman and has the ability to change his body.
Don't quite understand you here. I'm confused. What's your point?
Shaking galaxies with blasts has absolutely nothing to do with physical strength.
Yes, but can't amp his strength. The two feats are different. And LT or Celestials can break it.
And knock himself out.
It seems Thor can do it with Mjolnir without any harm to Mjolnir.
Size doesn't necessarily equal strength. Examples doesn't make things universal or fact. It's possible for a character to be created with the power to grow but keep his same strength.
But ill accept that Odin can amp his strength only by growing.
Yes he has. Every object in D.C. was discussed to be able to gain mass simply by moving with speeds under C. It's called relativity. D.C. has referenced it.
Not really. Zoom can imp because D.C. said he can. It's simple really.
If zoom can't imp then why was he referenced to punch harder than Superman when he is not as strong? Is it because he's fast relative to the target? If so then relativity holds for the target.
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Jul 31st, 2015 10:54 PM
