Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
I've never seen proof of any kind that tells me Two Dimensions/Universes can share the same space in time.
But also Leo, you chose a bad example ... the Negative Zone: which is without a doubt a separate Parallel Universe.
To begin with, I think the scan's being mis-interpreted.
I haven't read that book, but I want issue #s to find the proper meaning behind the scan.
Annihilus' horde seems to be emerging out of a Wormhole, a Wormhole leading to the Negative Zone.
So that right there separates the two Dimensions via a Wormhole. (a form of inter-dimensional travel)
I have to read the book before understanding "a failed pocket resting in an exiting one" ...
but what I do notice is this anomaly being labelled a "Tumor" ... which doesn't sound good.
Sounds like a problem that will be needing some fixing.
He also makes it read like it's a pocket within a pocket lol.
Also, the Negative Zone isn't a "pocket" so what are they referring to?
Also, the Negative Zone, is up and running last I checked, so what's "failed" about it?
Also, what does "failed" insinuate here?
Also, if it's withIN the universe why is there a Wormhole for transport?
... meh, I'm almost sure that scan isn't being defined correctly.
What's the book and # please, then I'l be back.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Jan 18th, 2014 at 04:43 PM
Unless I'm mistaken that was written by Hickman. So you'd just be wasting your time trying to make sense of it Mr. M. That guy is single-handedly phucking Marvel cosmology.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
you are more than welcome to check. opr gave the number and issue. there is NO additional context however. the good guys are getting their butts kicked. anny's wave is their last, desperate hope so annihilus brings the wave to our universe. the builder tells us the negative rests inside our universe. that's it. failed? don't know what it means. it DOES exist inside our universe though--that is crystal clear and not open to interpretation or re-interpretation. when you look at the history of the negative zone, you can see for yourself just how boundless it was intended to be.
in any event, the idea fits in perfectly with this scan:
spheres WITHIN spheres. a wormhole is needed for the same reason a knife is needed to get WITHIN my body. only a knife won't get me to the negative zone....
the universe is MORE than just one single thing. as such, eternity represents more than just one thing. i can show another 5 scans that ALL support the notion of eternity representing a multiverse. they are all in the cosmology thread and link on the last page.
seriously bro, you swore for the longest time that it was impossible, that i could never find proof of a universe in a universe. that scan shows PRECISELY that. even you have to admit what that means regarding the nature of eternity......
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Last edited by leonidas on Jan 18th, 2014 at 06:46 PM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
wait, wut? he is a universe AND all the adjacent dimensions.....?
if he's both, he's a multiverse.....or multi-universal/dimensional however you feel more comfortable describing the associations.
no one even knows what his nature is. but sure, i'll buy that. he is an entity that represents the collection of eternities. based on what you said though, he'd only represent the 616 earth universe and its alternates, as eternity represents only OUR single, 616 earth universe. he wouldn't really be a multiverse per se, just a multi 616 earth....verse? if you're saying multi-eternity represents earth + other dimensions, each individual eternity must embody other dimensions as well. if you agree to that, there's nothing more to discuss as THAT is what i've been saying for years.
dude, seriously? i've used that scan to SUPPORT the idea eternity IS a multiverse. there are an infinite numbers of eternities. each a multiverse unto itself. infinite eternities=infinite multiverses. it really is simple. that single scan showing that the negative zone is actually inside the 616 earth universe only cements the idea in my mind, but there is tons of corroborative evidence even without that scan.
Eternity is a universe and the universe has adjacent pocket realities connected to it : the variuos hells, Asgard, Olympus, etc... These pocket dimensions aren't true universes. Hence the term pocket dimension (there's a Dr. Strange issue scan floating around the forums as proof).
Multi-Eternity is a multiverse. 616 and all it's infinite alternate universes : 10258, 758, etc.... each having their own alternate versions of 616s pocket dimensions.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
ok, you're saying eternity is a shark and the other dimensions are remora. i get that, though i disagree with it. do you think then that if eternity is wiped out, all those others would be wiped out as well?
your idea still doesn't explain the dr strange scan i showed, nor the dormmy scan i posted, nor does it explain how the negative zone can exist within the 616 earth dimension. here is yet ANOTHER scan (there are more....) that shows on panel proof that our "UNIVERSE" is a MULTIVERSE. the beyonder pondering our UNIVERSE (aka eternity):
it can't be more clear--our universe, according to pre-ret BEYONDER--is a MULTIVERSE. just NOT a multiverse in the more traditional sense. ie--it doesn't contain all the alternates.
your scan to me makes complete sense, and again, i've used it to support my idea. that nullified eternity said he was only an ASPECT of eternity, because........it was only the EARTH DIMENSION that was nullified from that eternity. all the other dimensions--higher and maybe lower that compromise ALL eternities--would have been left in tact. the majority of THAT eternity was fine. ie, most of his aspect was untouched. that scan absolutely cannot be used to prove the existence of multi-eternity. i mean, c'mon zop. that was what? 20 years before that ff arc?? believe that if you want, but it makes no sense.
i truly, truly do not understand how you or others can argue something that is so well supported. show me a scan--somewhere--that eternity's embodiment is LIMITED TO ONLY THE 616 EARTH DIMENSION. just one scan. that would at LEAST give you a leg to stand on. as it is, i've shown support after support that is ignored or reinterpretted or just called PIS. eternity IS the universe. it's the universe that contains more than you're willing to admit for some reason.
In other cases he is undeniably described as multiversal...
This was explicitly stated in the pages of Captain Universe: (please log in to view the image)
And explicitly depicted in the pages of Defenders: http://imgur.com/khR2JSO http://imgur.com/fAyKaxU http://imgur.com/T2hYN4S "Worlds within worlds! DimensionS folding into themselves! Entire universeS being born...And collapsing into ruin! And yet I sens that all this--is but a FRACTION of what Eternity is! [...] Re-birthing every being and thing in ALL the universeS!"
Even as recently as Chaos War, Eternity described CK as his equal and opposite: http://imgur.com/s4MLJkv
Eternity: "[Chaos King] is the void against which I am defined. He and I walk hand in hand. If I fight him, I fight myself."
Herc: "But if he wins, you yourself will disappear, along with everything else!"
Eternity: "Indeed. So I sincerely hope you defeat him."
...And we know CK very nearly absorbed the entire multiverse: http://imgur.com/FGTfsSO
ie. Eternity=CK=multiversal.
Again, there are more examples, but most have them have already been posted.
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"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 18th, 2014 at 09:25 PM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
^i agree there has been some discrepancy, but imo just because he was shown acting as the life force of the universe does not preclude his representing MORE than just the universe./shrug
in any event, i think we at least now know beyond doubt that universes can actually exist within one another. to me, that pretty much ends the debate whether eternity is the embodiment of just a SINGLE universe. it's good enough for me at least.
Nobody has yet addressed how CK is going to harm Lucifer. This is still the guy who tanked a creation blast point blank with zero effort. A creation blast that would have obliterated 100% of the multiverse instantly.
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"And then there was nothing. A once broken something now void.
And on the first day, Doom spoke... 'Be.'
And then there was life."
I agree. Eternity representing a multiverse can not only be supported by on panel evidence, but makes sense as well.
That being said, I do not believe that any time we have seen Eternity be destroyed or replaced on panel automatically means the multiverse was destroyed or replaced by proxy... Especially if the narrative in some of these scenes specifically references Eternity in the singular/universal sense.
Example: Thanos /w/ IG usurping Eternity: http://imgur.com/xhZWurP http://imgur.com/lOljpI6 "...Control of THIS reality."
"...The center of all reality in THIS sphere."
"...THIS plane of existence."
See what I mean? Even though Thanos literally WAS Eternity, he had still only usurped a universal position-- certainly not a multiversal one. There are more examples of course('The End' comes to mind), but that's neither here nor there. Imo, it should really be addressed on a case-by-case basis where that side of things is concerned, because different writers obviously have different opinions regarding exactly what Eternity represents-- I'm sure this is also dependent on the scope of which they intend their story to encompass(not every writer wants to involve infinite universes in their works, lol.)
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"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:15 PM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
i see where you're coming from, but i'm not sure i agree with the thanos example or understand why you're making a distinction. with the IG, he usurped 616 eternity. everyone agrees on that. imo, his role then became the embodiment of all that 616 eternity represented. by that i mean his supremacy stretched to all the associated dimensions--asgard, hell, negative zone, all those pocket universes it was used in, etc.... i think we BOTH agree that his supremacy though, ended at whatever 616 eternity represents. ie--i think we both agree his reign ended at the "true" multiversal (all alternate eternities) level. is that what you were trying say? did i make any sense there?? lol
ftr--i agree with the case-by-case scenario in general. i just don't understand the blatant resistance to scan after scan of on panel proof. i don't believe i've ever seen anything like it.....
There are many more examples. It's confirmed beyond all doubt.
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And regarding Eternity; from what i understand you're saying that each Eternity represents its universe along with its divergent universes/realities, correct? Or that one Eternity (616) represents the totality of the mainstream multiverse, while Eternity's counterparts represent other separate multiverses outside the mainstream? (i disagree either way, just curious about what you're saying).
A multiversal Eternity was also shown back in the 1st volume of Defenders.
Defenders v1 #92, Eternity explains that he's incomplete, and when he's incmplete, reality will end:
Good, because you keep repeating the same broken tune about how it's his function yada yada yada.
And yet, even though I asked a long time ago, nobody has presented a scan showing that he has some special immunity to Michael's power (but nobody else's) rather than just the incredibly high level that he operates at. I mean, I didn't expect a scan to surface because I already know it doesn't exist.
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"And then there was nothing. A once broken something now void.
And on the first day, Doom spoke... 'Be.'
And then there was life."
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Jan 18th, 2014 05:38 AM
