He could show those extra abilities when he's in a JL movie. I remember when people were saying Norton's Hulk can't compete with Thor. And yet come Avengers he did. They just amped him for the movie. (Even though it wasn't Norton, but was same continuity).
This is key, you can't just take Bale's Batman and have him do outlandish feats like the comic book verson in a JL movie after 3 films of relying heavily on technology and grounded contraints. Iron Man was different because the very nature of Iron Man's tech from the suits, the arc reactor, the slick 3D displays in his house, they all are in the realm of pseudo-science (Nolan's films had pseudo science too of course but not on the level of IM) and this largely opened up possibilties for more outlandish ideas. Add that with the cameo of NF at the end of the first and more cameos in the other franchises and you had a shared universe in the making.
Had Nolan even made tiny references to other comic book universes/locations/characters (which wouldn't have compromised any of the films), then three characters Batman, GL and Superman would already be in the bag leaving time to bring other characters on board.
As it is you have GL which I haven't seen but I think it would have been mentioned if there was a JL link, and Superman, which is unclear as to if it will link to JL. Nolan's Batman came first and if that had linked to other DC universes the other two would have for definite. TDKR may be the one to 'reach out' but following the his closed universe rules I doubt it.
Last edited by Lord Shadow Z on Jun 20th, 2012 at 04:44 PM
^ It seems you guys are more bothered about the feats the character can do rather than just making the JL a big hit.
Fact is it's very very unlikely that any other DC hero will be anywhere near as successful as Nolan's Batman. At the moment they're struggling just to make a hit of any other hero. Even the last Superman couldn't make Half a Billion.
So if they don't capitalize on the huge success of Nolan/Bale's Batman then I really don't see JL being anywhere near as big as Avengers was. They will be more powerful in terms of feats though if that makes you happy.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Jun 20th, 2012 at 08:39 PM
^ I would want to rephrase my statement a bit then. Can you make a JL movie using the Nolan Batman? Probably. You can probably tweak a few stuff here and there to make him fit. But is using the Nolan Batman the best choice for the JL movie? No. So while Nolan's Batman can maybe fit in somehow, I would personally go with a bit less of a realistic Batman for a JL movie because he would fit better and it would make more sense.
"Fact is it's very very unlikely that any other DC hero will be anywhere near as successful as Nolan's Batman. At the moment they're struggling just to make a hit of any other hero. Even the last Superman couldn't make Half a Billion."
At this point in time, Batman has become a character so popular with the mainstream audience that you don't even need that much hype for his movies in order to attract an audience. So anything to do with Batman that portrays him as dark, gritty, and like the comics (from the comics all the way to TV shows, to video games like Arkham City, to the Nolan movies and to future live-action movies, etc.) will attract an audience. My point is that you don't specifically need Nolan's Batman to make half a billion at the box office. All you need is Batman. Any dark and gritty version of Batman. People will show up simply because it's Batman. Just look at how little advertisement they have for TDKR and it looks like it's going to make at least half a billion when it comes out. It already sold 6 times the amount of IMAX tickets Avengers sold and it didn't have anywhere the amount of hype and promos the Avengers had.
Batman has become such an iconic character to the mainstream audience at this point - especially in recent years mostly thanks to the Nolan movies and the Arkham games - that you don't specifically need Nolan's Batman for your movie to be successful. You just need Batman. Period. As long as the JL movie has Batman in it, people will show up regardless of whether or not it's Bale in the suit. Plus, if the rumors are true, Nolan is godfathering the JL movie which means you can still attach Nolan's name to the new Batman, which will attract even more people.
Last edited by spidermanrocks on Jun 20th, 2012 at 10:33 PM
^ I'm not sure I buy that just the name Batman will equate to huge box office success.
Batman Begins wasn't a huge success (though it was a hit). The same goes for Superman Returns. Just the name Superman didn't make it some huge hit.
Also we have yet to see audiences reaction to rebooting the much loved Nolan Bat franchise. But it's too early to tell I guess.
Anyway I'm still not very clear on why Nolan's Batman can't fit into a JL world. Batman doesn't have any superpowers anyway, so he'll never compare to the rest of the league in that sense.
It's his wealth, technology, resources and understanding of the criminal mind that is useful to them (and his badassness which puts the rest of the league in line).
I remember people saying exactly the same about the movie Avengers before it came out. That movie Iron man and Hulk would be utterley useless next to movie Thor and so would not really fit together.
But look at the result. It worked wonderfully. And I'm sure a huge part of it's financial success was capitalizing on the big success of Robert Downey's Iron man (the original script gave Cap a much bigger role than IM), plus capitalzing on Hulk being probably the most famous and recognizable character on the team.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Jun 21st, 2012 at 10:24 AM
Just my opinion but I believe Nolanverse can fit very well into the Justice League filmverse... It shouldn't take too much for whoever writes it too make it all work
Batman Begins wasn't a huge success due to Batman's image on the big screen being ruined by Batman & Robin. It took a while for Bats to rise (pun intended) again. He reached the "movie-will-be-a-huge-box-office-success-because-it-is-Batman" status only after The Dark Knight was released in theatres.
Superman Returns wasn't a huge success for the same reason Batman Begins wasn't a huge success. The last Superman movie pretty much ruined Supes' image on the big screen. Combine that with the fact that over 50% of the stuff in that movie were just rehashed stuff from the Donner movie and you could point that out from just seeing the trailers.
I think most people will be fine with rebooting Batman. The word "reboot" is heavily misunderstood. A reboot doesn't necessarily mean that you screwed up and have to start from scratch, redo the origin, reintroduce all the characters, redo the origins of the villains, and all of that. A reboot simply means ignoring the previous continuity. And with Batman's popularity, you wouldn't even need to set up any characters or continuity. You can just do a straight adaptation of any comic with all the characters already established and it would be fine. They're already said the Batman reboot (if it gets rebooted; there is no official announcement from Warner Bros yet but they said they're considering it and it will most likely happen) will already have an established Batman. This means we'll most likely get an already established universe where he's been Batman for a while, he's met some of his villains already, etc. I see it more as just a different take rather than a reinventation or redoing of the character. So if they have an already established Batman and an already established rogues gallery in the reboot, I think most people will be fine with it. Plus, Nolan is staying as producer for the reboot, which means it will probably be just as good in terms of storytelling, development, and complexity.
It's not that he can't possibly fit into the JL world in any way. It's that he wouldn't be the best choice for a Batman that exists in a JL world. As I said before, he needs to be a lot faster. Even faster than he was in Begins. Take the Arkham games for example. I'm sure you played them or at least saw some footage of them. He has to be THAT fast. Or at least as fast as Black Widow and Hawkeye were in Avengers (and they didn't have powers either). And he also has to prove that he is the world's greatest detective. As I said before, Bale's Batman still has to display those feats. You may argue that he can just display those feats in the JL movie. True but it's not being consistent. It wouldn't make sense to have him be like that for 3 movies and have him get his technology from Lucius Fox and then all of a sudden he is perfected in every field. And based on what we've seen from TDKR so far, he still doesn't seem to display those feats he needs for JL. I don't think we saw him do even a full body flip yet. TDKR takes place 8 years after TDK. How will you explain him not achieving this in 8 years (as well as in all the other years he was travelling worldwide training) but he suddenly learns how to do all this just in time for an alien invasion (or whatever villains they'll use in JL) strong enough to make him have to team up with 4 to 6 superpowered heroes in order to stop? That wouldn't make sense from a logical standpoint. Anyone professional critic who would look into this would realize the problem with this and would criticize the JL movie for that. Plus, the suit Bale wears wouldn't translate well to a JL movie. It was fine in BB, TDK, and I'm assuming it will be fine in TDKR but that's because he spends most of his time in the shadows and darkness and it looks good in there. It wouldn't look good in broad daylight or even in a place surrounded by a lot of lights (which is how I'm assuming the JL movie will look like). There is also the age factor. Bruce Wayne will be in his very late 30s/early 40s in TDKR and there are parts in the trailers and TV clips where you can see his hair turning gray. We know Superman will be in his 20s and I'm going to assume the other heroes will be younger too. Would you want a Batman that's almost twice the age of all the JL members? I personally would prefer a Batman closer to the other superheroes' ages.
Iron Man is a different case. Robert Downey Jr and Iron Man pretty much go hand in hand these days in terms of capitalizing off the character. It was Robert Downey Jr's great performance that made Iron Man a mainstream success. People think of Robert Downey Jr when they think Iron Man (including most comic book fans) just like how most people thought Christopher Reeves when they thought Superman (at least back in the day) and how people thought Robert Englund when they thought Freddy Krueger. Before that, IM wasn't exactly unknown but he wasn't one of Marvel's top 5 guns either. The movie gave us a definitive version of the character and even a lot of comic book fans only got into Iron Man once the movie came out. Batman is a whole different case. He's been an iconic mainstream success for decades now. People don't think Christian Bale when they think Batman. They think of everything involving Batman from Bale to Adam West to the Burton films to the comics to Batman TAS to other cartoons to the video games. Nolan did not create that iconic image of Batman. He simply just beautifully reintroduced it on the big screen after it was destroyed in the last decade.
The only people I heard say that about Iron Man and Hulk only said that months before Thor even came out. I don't think anyone said that once they saw Thor.
Sorry for the long post. I'm kinda tired after all that writing.
I don't see how Nolan-verse Batman could fit in to the JLA universe at all; the Noloan movies are almost completely grounded in reality, something a JLA movie wouldn't be.
Nolan's Batman would look stupid talking to Reynold's GL imo.
Nolanverse would fit very well, it just takes a good writer to make it work,, besides WB would look foolish if they did not at the very least attempted to include Nolanverse in the first script version
Isn't that the direction they're taking all the DC heroes now though.. They've even got Nolan overlooking Supes to try and make it more "real."
Then they should reboot GL, not Batman! Reboot the superhero joke so he fits with Nolan's Batman.
Don't reboot the superhero who has become the single most successful superhero on the big screen (might even single handedly give the Avengers a run) to fit in with the highest budget superhero joke we've seen in a long time.
What dis Keaton Bats do that would have him fit better. Bale Bats looks a lot more impressive to me combat wise and technologically.
As for Kilmer and Clooney... Do you want a JL movie to flop??
Last edited by Darth Thor on Jun 23rd, 2012 at 01:35 PM
"Real World" and "Not at all what you might expect" is not what I look for in Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and so on. Makes me think of a 90s take.
The reason DC's animated does better is the animated people seem to get the characters so much better. They don't feel the need to meddle with them for the sake of it, they just take 'em and make 'em work.
(This comment applies to Justice League, Young Justice, the animated films... you name it)
I have to repeat the reaction of Topless Robot and say that if they make a successful Metal Men movie before a Wonder Woman one, then everyone at WB deserves to be shot for being mind-numbingly incompetent at their jobs.
Kilmer didn't do anything wrong in the role at all, in fact he even managed to deliver his lines in a clear concise way instead of Bale's mangled, lisping overdone growling. People online and in general make fun of Bale's Batman more than they do Kilmers; so Kilmer must have been doing something right.
All of the reasons why it wouldn't work in one place. Almost-retired Batman (with 8-year career gap) in a grounded universe suddenly acquiring extreme agility, strength, speed, experience of JLA matters and characters, a new thinner pseudo-science suit with no grounded explanation (suddenly making the switch at the end of his career?), a sudden upsurge/belief in fantastical characters (when Nolan's tried so hard to deny these in his universe and downplay the theatrical/comic aspects of characters) etc.
With the grounded Batman on the team, what would they actually need him for? Make coffee?
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