Wonder how far down ladder that places your "lesser beings" if the LT is a microbe.
Same exact comedy. That is, Beyonder allowing himself to be stomped or otherwise.
Puma couldn't do to Beyonder unless Beyonder willed it.
Puma (at best)
had the power of the Multiverse, which is < Owen Reece
Interesting, when it was Beyonder who literally re-created/re-ordered History/Time,
so that 616 Doom could accomplish his feat.
Since before that, the feat was achieved by a future Doom who Never existed.
"wasn't exerting himself?" ... I disagree.
Owen didn't use all his power against Beyonder, this is true,
but he used enough power, and took enough damage, to end up Comatose:
And he couldn't even fix it ...
Owen needed to merge powers with Surfer to fix a single planet.
This is the same Owen who fixed Multiversal wide destruction with his finger
while calming down the Beyonder with a pep talk.
You're not reminding me of anything friend.
Beyonder didn't need Dave's help (come on, even yur laughing)
And Owen couldn't kill a rose, because the Concept of Death was erased.
Dave became Beyonder's friend, so Beyonder gave him the choice to become Death.
But regardless, something had to be Killed in order for the Concept of Death to rise again,
and that was impossible (ergo even Owen not able to kill flower)
but ONLY Beyonder had the power to kill something, (Dave)
when the act was supposed to be impossible.
Unless you're under the impression that had Beyonder tried to kill Dave without
Dave's consent he couldn't. Which is laughable, no offense.
__________________
Last edited by Mr Master on Aug 24th, 2013 at 01:52 PM
It feels good to be here. I have been following your work for a long time mrmaster and you are a legend on a site I am a member of called comicvine. We have had many impostors on our site copying your posts in this site and using it as their argument on our site. There is even a mrmaster in our site with your same logo but I am not sure if that is you but the way he debates is the same so I reply as if it is. We say this comic book forum is the best on the net with some of the most knowledgeable debaters and I think I am ready to talk comics with the big boys lol.
1. yeah, ive heard that before, whenever i come up with evidence that contradicts your argument, "throwing around scans" is what i get in return. Can't say that im surprised.
2. Alright. Though i disagree that it takes away his low showings.
3. that's not true, the beyonder "let" as in he wouldn't defend himself (that, i agree with), but the facts are:
unless of course, you can explain why would the beyonder need puma to reach multiversal levels to get himself killed? why not just........commit suicide??
4. and you do realize that the reason beyonder transferred doom's mind into his original body was to prevent his own destruction, right? because the beyonder was actually going to kill doom but if he did that, there would be a time paradox which will result in the destruction of time, killing him in the process (fantastic four #288):
since none of the handbooks have an emphasis on this instance, ill link you to the official marvunapp website to confirm this (read the ff 288 section)
so the only reason the beyonder transferred doom's mind into his body was to save his own ass.
5. you are missing important context. After he battled the beyonder, Owen managed to remove every living being from beyonder's death-blast (which reached to the ends of infinity), only after this incident, was the molecule man left weakened to the point that he couldn't repair the earth alone (secret wars 2 #9)
and don't forget he also projected beyonder's energies into his beyond realm.
so that's 2 important things you're missing.
6. im not laughing at all, and neither should you, because that's exactly what happened on panel, and it's made pretty clear that the only way the beyonder can resurrect death, is with Dave's help (secret wars 2 #6)
notice the beyonder specifically says that dave should become death so that this might work.
the 2006 official handbook confirms that Dave became the new Death when the beyonder killed him (this feat was never retconned (neither did any others except the celestials fight), it was also referenced in other post-FF #319 handbooks as well)
as the issue and the handbook shows: Dave became the new Death. So the beyonder definitely couldn't accomplish the feat without him. You cannot dispute that.
btw, just so that you won't get the wrong idea, i didn't mention those low showings because i hate the character or anything like that, in fact he's an interesting character imo, and i have read every appearance he has ever made (post SW included). But you've got to realize that in this type of battle (between 2 supreme beings), low showings/limitations are the determining factor. this was the reason i mentioned them (MoM doesn't have that kind of low showings/limitations)
And i have no idea what does being "the new GalacticStorm" suppose to mean, but im pretty sure it's not a compliment, not that i care, though.
Last edited by operator616 on Aug 25th, 2013 at 01:14 AM
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
... "evidence" you believe contradicts anything. My bad,
these Beyonder debates may be new and exciting for ya, but
they're old and done to nauseam for me.
I only entertain discussions nowadays for informational purposes,
not to try and prove facts I've already proven many years ago. So,
I can get a bit frustrated with circles.
Beyonder has no "low showings" unless he wanted them.
That was the idea portrayed imo.
See what I mean? You put your heart & soul into one statement,
but then completely disregard other statements by the SAME character.
"Beyonder stated this, and Beyonder stated that" ... "Beyonder stated Puma can kill him"
Yea, so long as Beyonder purposely limits himself, makes himself vulnerable enough to kill:
"No force in existence could possibly destroy me without my consent"
Stop deliberately picking statements that fit your preconceived notions my friend.
You want On Panel facts? ... No one ever killed Beyonder, ever!, and even
when his body was obliterated by Owen his Essence/Power was still functional
as it allowed Owen to re-direct it into the Beyond where Beyonder became the
Beyond Realm again but with life in it, the kind of life he found meaning in while in Eternity.
Those are the on panel facts!
In the Puma story, could Puma have destroyed Beyonder's body
"kill him" like Owen did? Sure, that's what the writer intended us to
understand, with Beyonder's allowance/participation of course. But
would this had killed Beyonder in the mortal sense? Of course not
and the very idea is ridiculous.
And On Panel Beyonder was destroyed and we saw what happened.
So, No. Beyonder had to play along with this nonsense because he
believed it was the way to for-fill his own destiny which was to
become whole again, and by doing this set an example like a teacher would.
We don't debate on KMC based on "statements/hyperbole" anyway,
we debate based on Feats ...
and "statements" have to at-least be backed by plausibility based on indirect/other feats
that tell us Yes, that is possible because such and such happened in this/that other story.
That's how it works friend.
And you do realize not only is the thought that Beyonder would die because Eternity dies is
especially since Beyonder was gonna erase space/time and everything in-between,
especially since Beyonder re-created/manipulated "Time" on several occasions,
especially since Beyonder and even Owen proved able to exist Outside of "Space/
Time" on separate occasions, here's one:
I'll fill you in on more details your missing in another post concerning what I said before,
regarding the non-existent future Doom that achieved what 616 Doom was forced
to repeat by Beyonder.
616 Doom was Not/Never in the original Secret Wars,
since 616 Doom's mind/spirit was actually in McArthur's body since 1983
when Terrax obliterated Doom's body.
In fact, 616 Doom never met or even had seen the Beyonder until FF#288 (1986)
which was towards the End of Secret Wars II. (SW I = 1984)
More on that in a bit.
__________________
Last edited by Mr Master on Aug 25th, 2013 at 05:30 PM
Also, you're really fooling yourself if you believe Owen stopped
Beyonder's power from destroying the Multiverse and then he
shunted it into the Beyond Realm.
I hope you do realize that Owen only shunted (directed) the
energies to the Beyond.
Heck, there's no way Owen would've been able to stop Beyonder's
full power especially in the condition he was in by then.
Beyonder did repeat several times he didn't want to destroy the
Multiverse anymore in that issue,
and since his power is his Sentience, it's safe to say the sentience allowed this.
Regardless my point still stands, Owen got wrecked and it all leads to Beyonder.
Well I was only laughing then, but now that you actually tried to prove with scans no less
that Beyonder couldn't accomplish the feat without Dave ... I'm on the floor, rolling.
Quite simple really.
The Concept of Death is gone, erased, and so nothing can die.
Even the most powerful being aside from Beyonder can't kill a flower:
"I can't. The ONLY way to do that, well, it would mean KILLING something, and that's beyond me"
Beyond Beyonder's power to kill something? That makes no sense and Dave clears it up for us:
"I can't believe that, you still have more power than the mighty combined"
(oh, so it is about Power)
*** Here's your mistake friend, Beyonder then speaking figuratively tells Dave:
"If some sentient creature were willing to ... " ... Dave: "Willing to die?"
Beyonder: "Worse, to become Death, in a manner of speaking ...
for from the seed of the First Death, its spectre would rise again"
You took this literally, and that's where you confused yourself.
"in a manner of speaking" (that's the key phrase you overlooked)
The reason Beyonder tells Dave he will become Death, is because he's gonna DIE!
and since he will be the First sentience to Die, said sentience becomes the concept of Death.
But,
he still has to be Killed first, something that is impossible ... but not for Beyonder evidently.
Context huh.
Here we can agree. btw though, I'm sure the thread starter meant Beyonder at full power,
and not the self imposed limited or plot hindered Beyonder
necessary to make a 50 plus issue arc involving an omnipotent
character in the presence of infinitely lesser beings.
I'm sure MoM is a rare sight to see in engagement.
__________________
Last edited by Mr Master on Aug 25th, 2013 at 05:31 PM
Imo he seems to have a lot more overall knowledge of comics then GS, and at least cites the particular comics his scans come from, which I can appreciate. We've certainly had our disagreements in the past, though.
Anyway, Beyonder wins.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
damn you change your sig and avy a lot. how are people supposed to rush to some half-assed and utterly incrroect conclusion about what you're like in real life by looking at your avy if you keep changing it all the time??
KMC Community Forums
Aug 24th, 2013 08:32 AM
... especially how much weight is put on empty statements.
to Beyonder unless Beyonder willed it.
(come on, even yur laughing)
... "evidence" you believe contradicts anything. My bad, 
