Essentially, Sauron was given everything he had by Melkor's machinations of Arda and by the corruption of the Ring. He never used too much of his own energy on corrupting Arda, so he preserved almost all of it till his final destruction.
Sauron was a lesser Maiar than Gothmog perhaps, but with that ring he's more powerful. Even without it he is a greater Maiar than Mithrandir, so perhaps he was stronger than Gothmog - as Gandalf was able to throw down one of the lesser Balrogs (and was technically greater than the Witch King, especially as the Head Wizard).
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
During the Siege though He never appeared before the very end. What is so impressive about holding up in the fortress till you no longer can? There isn't anything impressive about that at all. The facts are, first age elves have the better feats. You can say well there is no reason for this, but that doesn't change the fact that's true. Second and Third age elves don't have the feats to match 1st age elves. Absence of proof isn't proof.. that isn't how it works. There needs to be PROOF that third age elves can and have completed the same knida feats as first age. We don't don't go.. ohhh they should be able to do the same stuff they just never did. nice try though, and we'll just go ahead that first age elves have the better feats.
Actually it does in the LOTR verse. The strongest are put in front way more times than not. There are always exceptions, but for the majority of people and fights the best were out in front and leading the charge. Melkor not leading the charge proves next to nothing. You're basically saying The Vice president (Sauron) is more powerful and a better leader/fighter than the general in the trenches. This couldn't be further from the truth and the analogy we have here. It's one thing to okay thing and give orders but not want to risk too much so you stay indoors. But still give the okay to things or oder things. Sauron was doing NEITHER. He wasn't put out to lead the troops and earn victories nor was he in charge of sending out the order or making the plans.. Melkor was. Which is the point.. he was NETHER.
Well Neme was claiming that Eru couldn't even kill Sauron if he watned to.. I sure hope it was him and not you.. because if it was you.. that was pretty idiotic of you. Anyways, it came up because I was mentioning the one of many times Sauron has been killed.
Think about it... It took Gandalf days to kill a inferior Balrog to Gothmog. This is after a super long fall which obviously would've hurt the balrog. You mix h2h combat with lighting and magic and it still took that long to kill him This is a maiar mind you that took that long to kill one. Sauron was killed by conventional weapons in a vastly shorter period of time by an inferior enemy. Care to explain that? This is an inferior Balrog were't talking about.. Not the Lord of the Balrogs and High Captain of Angband. It took Gandalf THAT long to get the job done with weapons and Magic. It took 2 elves exponentially less time to Kill Sauron with conventional weapons. Huge difference in durability.
What it comes down to is this...
Gothmog has beaten better foes (indisputable)
Gothmog was the captain and leader of Melkor's forces not Sauron. Sauron didn't do jack shit but practice his magic in the fortress while Gothmog handled business
Balrog's were meant to be brutes and fighting Machines. I will concede that Sauron is a more powerful Mage and better in the dark arts. He was even a better politician. He could be all those things but it doesn't change the fact that Gothmog was a more powerful fighter and foe. that is what they did and what they were about. Sauron was no warrior... Gothmog was and it showed in the battlefield.
Actually there is; against the combined forces of the Elves and Men of Middle-earth, Saurons mere appearance nearly broke the siege. This is far more evident in the books than in the film, and it is only because of the heroic sacrifice of Gil-Galad and Elendil that Sauron bites the dust.
Proof by assertion. Elrond and Gil-Galad are First Age Elves, in that they are born during the First Age. Elrond is actually older, and part Maiar, and Galadrial/Celeborn older still and have the benefit of seeing the lights of the Two Trees of Valinor, yet all of them are subservient to Gil-Galad.
So you claim it is the case; therefore it is? What are you even pretending to accomplish here?
Ultimately, this is a red herring. Gothmog hasn't killed anyone alone; Sauron has. Gothmog hasn't shown any higher levels of magic; Sauron has. Gothmog hasn't nearly broken a siege by just showing up; Sauron has. Gothmog hasn't killed a soul without being backed up by an unknown amount of cronies; Sauron has.
You don't have an argument.
Proof by assertion. Morgoth did not rule from the front, and he is explicitly the strongest agent of evil in the universe.
Yes, it does. Melkor could curbstomp Sauron and Gothmog combined. Evil only respects might as right. The hierharchy goes Morgoth > Sauron > Gothmog = Dragons > Balrogs > Everything else.
Just saying "THIS IS SO" is not an argument; that's baseless refuting. Learn to debate, noob.
No, Tolkien is, and the evidence is as well. You're just being stupid because you think Sauron is a mere politician and Gothmog is some battle hardened warrior, even though Sauron can kill people with his bare hands (he burned Gil-Galad alive) and Gothmog can't kill anything up to and including a maimed and dying elflord without his posse.
Again, you have no argument. QED.
This is all pointless. Sauron was explicitly stronger than Gothmog. Tolkien himself all but says it, and Gothmog has not killed anyone by himself.
Again, for the umpteenth time, you have no argument.
Eru, if he was so inclined, could kill anyone. But his attack against Numenor, while not directed at Sauron himself, caused a shit-ton of collateral damage. Damage which Sauron mostly mitigated and escaped.
Gothmog hasn't shown that kind of mastery in anything, save for being the First Age equivalent of a gang leader.
Gandalf the Grey is explicitly holding back, even while fighting the Balrog. And he died anyways. There's a passage on the wizards not being able to strive against Sauron with their full Maiar might because it would destroy Middle-earth if they did.
And even then, Saruman, Gandalf the Grey's superior in might if not in wisdom, was afraid of Sauron and knew he would lose alone.
You're retarded if you think the weapons of Elendil and Gil-Galad were "conventional weapons".
Except that you don't know the durability difference between Durin's Bane and Gothmog; they could be exactly alike but one has a captain's garb. There's no evidence to suggest any superiority other than rank and having a legit name.
And as I said above, you're outright stupid if you think the weapons of Gil-Galad and Elendil were conventional weapons.
Gothmog has defeated no one.
Gothmog with an unknown number of other balrogs has killed before, such as Feanor who had fought for ten days continuously and was without much backup (absolutely no named elflords were with him in the vanguard and even then, Feanor made Gothmog and co. work hard for it).
Gothmog died to Ecthelion, who was maimed and dying, from a helmet spike and water.
Helmet spike <<<<<< Narsil/Aeglos.
Lol. You don't know what the **** you're talking about.
Since mages are always more powerful than mere brutes, you concede that Gothmog loses any fight and is inferior.
Yes, because getting orcs to vote for him was part of his job description.
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You haven't demonstrated that any of this is true. And as I've noted above, much of what you're saying is false. You can't even directly provide source material for your claims, which further indicates you are arguing out of your ass.