By BANE. When she was half-trained in RoT. Jesus, and you were lecturing me about logic. Failing to completely block a Force Wave from a berserk Bane (who's more powerful than Revan) is hardly a bad feat. It's Bane. He's that freaking powerful. That she managed to block it as much as she did, half-trained, is probably PROOF that she can block Revan's attacks as her older self.
Except it wasn't a desperate final act. Desperate final acts are notable because its the person putting all their power into that last move and using absolutely everything. Zannah didn't do that. She was desperate, but no more so than a bunch of people in similar life or death situations.
Because Zannah likes to be more subtle about things than just blowing them up. As I pointed out, she pasted a woman with a Force wave and smashed Bane into a wall which > disintegrating a hand.
That's not even close to the same thing. They don't get great power from instinctively using the Force, they instinctively use the Force to get great power. Its completely different. All they do is drain it from people.
Aren't all Force Scream somewhat instinctive? And I said that because it was him tapping into the darkside as well as his potential. Which is different to Zannah anyway since she actually accesses her potential after doing that feat. If there was an Anakin 30 years in the future of the feat who had become infinitely more masterful with the Force I would of course say he could replicate it and it would be an eligible feat. Anakin was tapping into potential he hadn't unlocked at that point. A good deal of Zannah's potential was unlocked by her after doing that feat. As a Sith Lord with a massively improved mastery of the Force she should be capable of replicating it.
Um, because he found her after she'd murdered two Jedi? Bane can sense the power she possesses. Its the only reason he chose her as his apprentice, as per his own thoughts on the matter. That she was still capable of surprising him with her power is a good indication of her power.
He was starving and solely focused on Telos, as per Marr's opinion. Even if he noticed them, he wouldn't notice the mando's nor care enough to drain them.
Lolwut? Are you even trying today? And Revan was thrown on his ass by Vitiate so I guess Zannah will be Force pwning him too.
It isn't pure speculation that Zannah is just as powerful or more powerful than Bane. Which 100% makes her one of the most powerful Sith ever and waaaaay more powerful than a joke like Malak.
You can be trained to react instinctively to attacks, easily.
When he.... trained her?
Except that we're only talking about this in regards to whether Bane was drugged enough to lack common sense. Try to keep up, Ant.
"The dull gray fog that had clouded his thoughts was clearing, leaving his mind sharp and focused." - Before Bane breaks out of his restraints. Well before his fight with Zannah.
Defensive much?
He kind of sucks next to the truly great like Revan or Bane. He's incredible next to chaff Kotor Jedi.
None of which would have been effective, so not a good comparison. Plus we only saw the end of the fight. Vitiate was also heavily wounded. He tried to pour everything into a last ditch power struggle. Not a retarded plan. He had no other options left.
I don't really see why. There's a large difference between Revan and Vitiate yet he could still compete somewhat in a Force duel. A fraction of a difference between Bane and Zannah wouldn't matter much. If it was really so significant that Bane could beat Zannah with the Force at 100% he.... would have actually beaten her that way in the final fight.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Jun 1st, 2014 at 06:51 PM
And she is facing REVAN. With the exception of the nexus's of Lehon and Ruusan, Darth Bane's telekinesis is not superior to Revan's. Revan's TK strong enough to throw the Empire's "most powerful champions" across a huge platform, send asteroids flying downward, and make Vitiate packing. And by your logic, if Vitiate can't use a Force Barrier to prevent him from getting TK'ed, there is no way Zannah can either.
Ah, forgot to mention something: Zannah is only a couple meters next to like...ya know...the most powerful nexus ever which contains the souls of thousands of Jedi/Sith.
However, Chapter 9 says "By crippling him, Rain had spared his life; a final act of mercy before she fell under the sway of her new dark side Master. It was a desperate final act...to save his life. It's the only thing she could have done to save it, and so she did it. The fact she never does it again, which would have been handy for her against the Jedi Strike Team, shows something about her, doesn't it?
You say "Instinctual use of the Force isn't THAT powerful.", but then you say it grants them great powers. :/ Which one do you pick?
Darth Bane's wasn't.
This makes no sense. Anakin is tapping into his potential, yet he doesn't have access to it? He would need some access to be able to tap into it. Hell, I'm not even sure Zannah even tapped into her potential, she probably just drew off the massive Force Nexus right next to her.
I'm not disagreeing with you? However with such, you are implying Prime Zannah strength>Prime Bane strength. I don't agree to such, for it also implies Prime Congus strength>>Prime Bane strength. And so forth, so by the time of Sidious, Sidious should be able to wipe the floor with Bane, which isn't the case.
Not really. By this logic, like above, Sidious would be waaaaay more powerful then Bane.
Your comparing Zannah's TK to Vitiates?
Uh, what?
Zannah blocks the Force Storm ritual well before Bane even knows she exists. She does it in I believe the 3rd comic. Bane doesn't meet her till the 6th comic. You need some sleep bro.
No, you are, for you believe Bane doesn't use TK because he can't, which is stupid as **** considering at the end of the novel he uses it. So your point no longer even holds at all.
Vitiate should have done mind domination from the start, I doubt he needs his strength absolutely full to do it.
There isn't a large distance. Take Vitiate off Dromaund Kaas, put him on some neutral grounds, and get a coin ready to determine to the victor, because it's gonna be close.
He uses TK in the final fight to "send her reeling."
And if Bane can do that much, Revan can probably do a tad more.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
It wasn't a competition, dumbass. I'm saying that RoT Zannah failing to block a Force Wave from a supremely pissed off Bane doesn't mean that she couldn't block the Force Storm.
Also Revan doesn't TK Vitiate you liar. He knocks him off his feet with his Force in Balance attack. While he's "unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan’s mind." Revan couldn't TK an Imperial Guardsman who was merely drawing a bit of power from Vitiate.
Bane > Revan in TK. Zannah > Revan in TK. Eat it fanboy.
Zannah is untrained. She wouldn't be capable of tapping into the Thought Bomb. Also the novel attributes it to her "natural affinity for the Force".
It wasn't a desperate final act, by freaking definition. You don't need to prove that she did it to save him, I already know that. The fact is though that she wasn't doing a final, all or nothing attack.
No, it shows nothing. They engaged her before she could use the Force on them. And when she could use the Force she used her sorcery, which is where he true strength lies. Which is why she doesn't spam TK more. She is still close to or equal to Bane in TK.
They're not mutually exclusive, as I said. Their instinctive use of the Force isn't powerful. It merely does a unique thing that drains power from others, making them very powerful in the process. Neither of them are naturally powerful.
When did Bane do a Force Scream?
You're obviously struggling here. Maybe wait until tomorrow before replying, ok?
Anakin was pissed off, which gives him greater access to his vast power than he normally has. Of course he has some access to it normally. Jesus ****. He can actually you know.... use.... the Force? So he can access some of his potential whenever he wants? Do you understand? But since he is Anakin Skywalker, ok, he has loooooots of potential. Since he is the Chosen One. A lot of potential which he cannot usually use, he can only use a bit of it. What we're saying is that when he did the feat, he tapped into a lot more of it than he normally does.
Now Zannah, like Anakin, has a lot of potential too. When she blew up her cousins hand, she couldn't access a lot of it either though, because she had no training. So your argument is that she unconsciously was tapping into her vast potential to perform the feat, beyond what she's normally capable of.
Now, what I'm saying is that the difference between the two feats is that Zannah actually grew up after her feat and gained a vastly superior command of the Force. So she could consciously access a hell of a lot more potential than she could as a child. So she could access the same power that she did as a child, and replicate the feat, easily. Anakin on the other hand, got chopped up and became Vader right after that feat. So when talking strictly about Anakin, he didn't gain a better command of the Force after that feat, which wouldn't mean he could replicate the feat.
Do you understand, or do you need more pictures?
Well Zannah actually does possess more potential power than Bane. She's more powerful than him.
Cognus' strength though comes from her unique abilities, not her having more power than Zannah, which I don't believe is ever said.
No. Also, do you really deny that Zannah has equal power to Bane?
Well, I was being sarcastic.
You need to read and think more carefully bro. I said that Zannah has been trained to throw up a force shield. AS A SITH. As part of Banes training. I'm not talking about child Zannah, I'm talking about Darth Zannah, here in the thread. You're saying that people can access tons of raw potential through doing things instinctively, so I pointed out that Zannah has been trained to block Force attacks instinctively.
WTF? Are you on the drugs? This has been a really shoddy reply so far.
No, I'm saying that Bane doesn't use TK because he can't overpower her with it. At the end of the novel he uses it when shes concentrating on maintaining her mind attack on him. So much of her strength and concentration would be used on that at the time. And all he does is push her back a few freaking steps. So it barely effected her, just as I'm arguing his TK would in a fight.
Vitiate couldn't use his mental domination because the HoT would have resisted it. The quest text even says that he knows it won't work so he's "resorted to more conventional means to destroy you."
Lol, no.
A few steps backwards. She wasn't even knocked over. When she was concentrating on her mental assault.
Also, lol no.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Jun 1st, 2014 at 09:54 PM
I skim ur txt & c u no read the goddamn Darth Bane book.
I'll respond later, but I suggest you fix up some of your points, or re-read certain parts of the Bane trilogy b cuz u so dumb
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
I'm sorry what? when did Bane use TK on Zannah in their final fight?
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
"Zannah watched as Bane huddled against the ground, his lightsaber flailing wildly at invisible ghosts, but she didn't let her concentration falter. Bane's mind was strong; if she let up even for an instant he might break free of the spell.
For a second she thought she had won as Bane let out a shriek, but the burst of energy that followed sent her reeling backward.
Regaining her balance she saw that Bane was on his feet again, and she knew he had resisted the spell. But she still had one more surprise for her Master."
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Oh that
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
It also wasn't directed at her. and it wasn't TK.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Because we don't need that as a reason why he can't, because there are much better reasons.
That's not even a game mechanic ability iirc, you just made it up. It's telekinesis, lol. He summons both powers of the Force and unleashes it in a Force blast, aka telekinesis.
This only make it look worse for the Strike Team getting their asses thrown 20 meters numerous times.
Except this isn't true...
and Bane>Zannah in TK.
I see despite all your years in Star Wars debates, your knowledge in nexus's are limited. You don't need to tap into the power of nexus's manually, being merely near it gives you strength. Otherwise, Jedi would be unaffected by Dark Side nexus's, which is not the case. Also, she is capable of tapping into the nexus of Ruusan to amplify her speed: "She'd used her newfound talents in the Force to propel herself along, running so fast that the world passed by her in a blur of wind and color. But while the Force may have been infinite, her ability to draw upon it was not. Her skills were still developing, and fatigue had set in quickly. She had felt her pace slowing as her strength ebbed, and though she tried to summon the power of the dark side again by tapping into her deep reserves of anger and hate, her exhausted will could only call up the faintest flicker of a response."
Darth Bane would kill him right there and then if she didn't do that. It was "her final act of mercy" to save a one she loved, like Starkiller to Juno and Kota.
No Sith/Jedi in that game was naturally powerful.
Page 297, first full paragraph. The paragraph ends with "...them."
Ima have to make you look for it as your torture for using sarcasm.
I got that much.
This isn't the part I understood because your logic sux. She wouldn't need to access any of her full potential against the arm because the Thought Bomb was right there. What we must look at is when she snaps the necks of those Jedi. She says she didn't even mean to kill them, and does it out of instinct. She is not manually drawing off her potential, but rather doing it without her knowledge. Therefore though she can probably replicate the feat, it is not as if she can manually draw off her potential like you claim.
And Revan possesses "unlimited potential."
According to Bane's teachings, Cognus's power eventually eclipses Zannahs.
Just because she is trained to block Force attacks instinctively doesn't mean she can re-replicate herself surviving Bane's ritual, which you are saying she can.
Except the fact that the TK was not even directed at her yet she was pushed back shows something. Imagine if he unleashed a burst at her personally. She would be sent packing.
You know it to be true.
What I said above ^
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
I made up the name, because its easier to say that "That attack that Revan did where he used both the lightside and darkside in conjunction". It wasn't telekinesis though, it was the Force, "in it's purest form," that creates a flash of light which TK doesn't do.
That's no canonical. It miiiight be canon that Revan can use a Force Wave in that fight. Whether it tossed them around isn't. Just because it does in gameplay means nothing.
Also nice concession.
It totally is though.
Except that isn't true. Back up that claim or concede it.
No, that's not how it works. Also, I'm pretty sure that the Thought Bomb contained the power within it and needed to be directly accessed anyway. In any case, the Thought Bomb had literally just been created and hadn't become a nexus yet. It isn't mentioned anywhere that it was amping them or even that the Force was strong in that place.
The novel says she did it with her natural affinity with the Force. /discussion
That... what? How does that prove she was tapping into the power of Ruusan? Did you post the wrong quote? She got tired, thanks for... posting that.... I guess?
Except that was Starkillers dying effort and he put everything into it. Zannah was desperate but no more than countless other Force users have been in scores of other works. It's not the same at all. Just because it has the freaking word 'final' in it doesn't mean anything.
Nice concession, again. Wow, you're conceding a lot in this one.
Or I could just not care.
Without the puppets? Hey, I'm impressive buddy!
Wrong, Zannah isn't said to have been using the Thought Bomb. The novel actually specifically says she did it with her own natural affinity with the Force.
Yeah, that's a valid example. Yes, she did it out of instinct, drawing on her unconscious Force abilities. Its not something she can do usually.
When she was 13.
Of course she can do it when she's a fully trained Sith Lord, since now she can manually draw on what was just her potential at the time she killed those two. Because she has largely fulfilled her potential by that point. Because her mastery of the Force is massively better (and its just obvious that a Sith as powerful as her could curbstomp two random Jedi), it's apparent that she could replicate it. If she can do something as an untrained child, then as the Dark Lord of the Sith, logically she can also do that.
I swear to god, if you actually take that seriously I'll just stop responding. Its a meaningless phrase by a fallible character. Revan has unlimited potential like Sidious has unlimited power. It means nothing.
Meanwhile, Zannah actually has more potential than Bane.
That isn't how it works. Bane's teachings don't warp reality to give Cognus more midi-chlorians than Zannah. Unless she's actually said to be more powerful, she is not. The only thing Bane notes is her unique abilities, not her raw power.
I know. That was my sarcastic point in the first place. Just because someone is using the Force instinctively doesn't mean they're tapping into their potential. Instinctual use of the Force only means you're using the Force without thinking.
If she were using all her concentration on a spell at the time and not defending herself? Yes, yes she would.
As I said, that proves nothing. You're the one talking about how Zannah's feat isn't reflective of anything since Bane was off guard when she pushed him, eevn though he threw up a shield AND was amping before hand. Zannah wasn't even said to have put up a force shield. I don't even know why we're talking about this.
Ultimately, the fight will be decided by Revan's telekinesis and lightning vs Darth Zannah's telekinesis and lightning. To be knowledge, Zannah has never even demonstrated the use of knowledge, so all she has in her arsenal is telekinesis. Her sorcery requires time where, like Vitiate, Revan will savior and be able to effectively TK/Force_in_Balance her.
With such being said, you are being quite bias to claim Zannah can not only overcome Revan's force attacks, but then be able to beat her with her own! We know Zannah is not capable of this.
Enough with Zannah Tk'ed a unprepared Zannah. For all we know, Zannah could have sat in a corner and charged up for 5 minutes. "He began to gather the dark side, the power slowly building. But before he could unleash it he was hit by a wall of thunderous force rolling out from a corridor to his left. Instinctively he threw up a defensive shield, absorbing the blow. Despite this, he was slammed against the opposite wall, knocking the breath from his lungs."
And yet you dismiss Revan hitting Vitiate since he wasn't prepared, lmfao, Bane didn't even know Zannah was there! Furthermore, to my knowledge that is her best telekinetic feat. Please inform me otherwise if this is not true, but until then, Revan laughs at her.
Consider it a special kind of TK.
Regardless of what it is, and quite frankly I don't give a damn, he can use it against Zannah if she tries to summon any illusions. However, I doubt he would need to anyway, considering he fought off Vitiate's mind domination successfully for 300 years.
Concede now, because you won't win this part.
The game itself is canon. Correct? Gamemechnics have never been stated to be non-canon. Correct?
Good, I see we agree, because it is apart of a canon game, and not stated to be non-canon, so it falls under the canon category of such said game.
Also, I am tired of your double-standards. Like seriously? The other day you posted a video over how you were impressed of a feat some Dark Councilor did against the Sith Strike team, you said something along the lines of "whatever he does, it's pretty damn impressive" or something like such. Yet now you are telling me they are ineligible for a debate? Ha.
They are on Dromaund Kaas, which is said by Luke to be incredibly powerful in the Dark Side, and they can use the Sith Emperor's strength to make them have some Force Resistance. So what? It is not as if Revan channeled his full TK, he did a normal push, nothing special. I would rather be annoyed if the Guard did fly backwards.
Zannah has like one telekinetic feat.
All hail the mighty Zannah, the greatest Tker in the world! (please log in to view the image)
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"The pale, glowing orb floating in the center of the chamber was nearly four meters tall. It pulsed with raw power; it made the flesh on Bane's neck crawl and the hair on his arms stand on end. Dark veins of shadow swirled on the shimmering metallic surface in slow, hypnotic rhythms. There was something grotesquely compelling about it, something fascinating yet repulsive at the same time."
"Winter was still a new-and not entirely welcome-phenomenon on Ruusan. Originally it had been a temperate world, its climate controlled and moderated by the vast boreal forests that dominated the planet's surface. But during the prolonged conflict between the Brotherhood of Darkness and the Army of Light, millions of hectares of old-growth trees had been decimated, turning a huge swath of Ruusan's northern hemisphere into a desolate and arid wasteland.
Alone, the dramatic changes in the geographic features of the world might not have been enough to affect a significant climatic shift. However, the damage to the environment left the world more vulnerable to the terrible devastation of the thought bomb. In the wake of Kaan's ultimate weapon, a powerful Force nexus was created: an invisible maelstrom of dark- and light-side energies capable of permanently altering the planet's weather patterns.
As a result, even in the regions of the planet where the forests still stood, snow-a rarity in generations gone past-became a regular yearly occurrence. The unprecedented winters typically lasted only a few months, but they were particularly brutal on an ecosystem that had evolved in a much warmer clime. Some of the flora and fauna of Ruusan, like the humans who still inhabited the world, had learned to adapt. Other species simply died off."
Her natural affinity would be automatically and naturally amplified by the powers of the Thought Bomb. Try again.
You claimed she cannot tap into the power of other things, yet I proved you wrong by showing she can tap into Ruusan to amplify her speed.
*Everything! (please log in to view the image)
Well, the Exile is considered by Revan to be a "very powerful" or "powerful" Jedi in the Mandalorian Wars in Revan if I recall correctly. She is naturally powerful. However I (please log in to view the image) over Nihilus.
I accept your concession.
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You do not need to tap into a nexus for it to effect you...
It doesn't work like that either. We cannot just assume something like such and then write it off as a feat for a debate. Revan should be able to slaughter a dozen-or-so of the Imperial Guard, but that doesn't mean I can write it off as a feat and use it in my debate. I have to use what is available, and I can't make such assumptions be the basis of one of the main points in a 5 page debate.
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That doesn't mean she reaches her potential.
On a nexus, yeah.
NOTE: I won't be able to respond until Thursday.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Jun 2nd, 2014 at 10:04 PM
Jun 1st, 2014 06:49 PM
