KMC Forums - high herald match cadencev2 vs Supermutant

quote:

leonidas wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 06:26 AM:
my vote in the cadence/mutant match:
_________________________

ok, this may be lengthy because i'm just going to write random thoughts as i read then try and gather said thoughts for a winner:

--spawn didn't use prep to do anything special
--not buying strange using the book in battle as a shield--far too valuable for him to ever do that
--strange at least prepped spells and shield

advantage: strange

--tp=wash imo--spawn's tp would likely negate effectiveness of illusions though
--against rules for spawn to try and know what strange did in prep
--spawn has the ability to attack from 360 degrees--can strange shield 360?
--crystals returned energy back at 100x strength, not strange.....
--penance stare spell--convinced it won't work on spawn who's faced and conquered similar attacks multiple times
--strange is trying to do too many things at once--shields, bands, penance stare spell...
--the eye is not in a pocket dimension. proof it CAN'T be teleported away?
--spawn seems to be a 2-in-1 character--gives an advantage in numbers
--proof that shields would handle chains?
--spawn has def advantage physically--strange would never go zom-strange and couldn't because that wouldn't be standard gear
--danger sense could alert spawn to bands, but...big question: can spawn evade/break free of the crimson bands?
--still no proof that the eye can't be teleported. that would give a large edge in tp to spawn....
--scan shows strange blasting while shielding, but NOT THROUGH his shield....proof strange can cast through the shields he raised?
--still looking for proof spawn can get out of the bands....
--don't believe the eye would be working through his raised shields so don't see spawn as being weakened...
--bands caught strange who was intangible and astral--how is spawn going to counter them?
--proof the shields would block an attack from behind?
--bfr'ing isn't happening for either
--strange MIGHT be penance stared.....
--not buying the black hole at all+strange has shields from prep
--can strange's shield keep a teleporter OUT of them...?
--spawn's summoning of creatures could work here as they don't think independently--strange's counter fails because those are independently thinking beings he threatened with
--spawn did not summon creatures INSIDE the body by that scan...
--still no proof the eye isn't ported away, still no proof the bands won't hold spawn, still no proof the shields will work in 360 degrees
--cyttorak scan shows he isn't shielding and attacking at the same time....but it IS 360 in coverage
--cosmic fire? don't see that working on anything as powerful as the suit...
--finally proof spawn could shatter the bands...
--the legion are independent thinkers thus illegal--would need proof they are not, and regardless, the army is against the spirit of the rule
--strange can stop time, but neither showed they could counter it
--lt could destroy strange with a thought--cool feat but meaningless in this match
--gr LET strange have his essence, useless in battle
--spawn's penance stare won't work on strange...

hrm. lots of questions here still, so i had to ask which answered the MOST questions. i know a lot about strange but not too much about spawn, which is fine because as i read, i was pretending to know nothing about either so as not to let my own knowledge impact the battle.

so, what i saw happening (based on effectiveness of counters and attacks) is this: strange never showed the shields could prevent a teleporter from getting inside--that's a def advantage for spawn. also no proof the eye couldn't be ported away was shown. another big edge to spawn, even if i don't necessarily believe EITHER thing would happen. in fact, there IS proof of this i believe, but it wasn't shown. i also didn't see proof strange could cast THROUGH his seraphim shield. so to do anything he'd need to LOWER his shield, or at least part of it like he did against mephisto. spawn could answer that. i thought the bands would work but spawn is likely strong and mystically knowledgeable enough to break them. i thought they COULD slow him, but waited for strange to really show something that would end spawn but i didn't see anything definitive.

in the end, i'm forced to give this to SPAWN.

he seemed to have more bases covered, and seemed better able to handle strange's defense. i do NOT necessarily think spawn could take strange in a comic, but based on what i saw here, i think spawn showed greater ability to adapt to weaknesses that were pointed out and not countered sufficiently. strange's use of the eye in prep was hampered by his own shields. the bands could be countered i thought. once the shields were dropped the advantage became spawn's imo. close fight, very difficult to judge. i learned a lot about spawn here. good job to both.

quote:

Digi wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 12:46 AM:
Well, apparently I screwd up in not sending you my judge ruling. I'm getting Bada to edit it. Here it is:

Ok, thoughts:

- My biggest gripe in this otherwise cool match is that neither of you created a sense of narrative. There were a couple attempts at fight flow, but mostly it was "throw ALL the feats at this and see what sticks." Neither one of your guys could do all of these things over the course of a fight. It's too much. So sifting through it to figure out what counters what, and which scenario is most likely, is tricky, at best. It's fine to have multiple avenues of victory, but it felt more like "I'll do this...OR I'll do this...OR maybe this...OH I can also do this...etc." It wasn't varying methods of attack so much as 3-4 entirely different strategies and/or approaches.

- That aside, great match! Kudos.

- I'm a little dubious this is HH. Strange is listed at HH, yes, but Classic-only strange used to be Trans., and imo rightly so. Spawn similarly seems to push the boundaries. However, a lot of people push limits in tourneys and BZs, so this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

- Strange got bumped down to HH for a reason, and it was because of a lot of low showings to go with his abstract-busting stuff, even in his "Classic" iteration. Cadence showed a couple of these, and referenced a few more, but more could have been done here. Similarly, Supermutant's counters were mostly Strange-based, and didn't poke holes in Spawn himself.

- The chief struggle is that with such versatile characters, counters exist for a lot of uber sh*t. You both showed awesome attacks similar to Penance Stare, but both had adequate counters or defenses. Astral, telepathy, summoning (or blocking summoning), dimensional portals, etc...all end up pretty much a wash. Also, Strange's artifacts aren't getting destroyed, and Spawn isn't being OHKd like Galactus, imo.

- So then we're left with offense and defense. I do think the Bands afford Strange some initiative, if only briefly. And there is a difference between facing one's fears and simultaneously getting millions of souls dropped on your metaphysical dome, so I think Strange's Ikonn spell would have some affect (though not a OHK). Both of your "kitchen sink" attacks are beyond ridiculous, so either one of you could definitely kill the other. But in such a diverse fight, I have to side where I think there's a slight edge. And Strange's opening, Bands + Ikonn + reflection spell, give him that.

Great fight. Really close. Vote to Supermutant.

and there we have it. The two judges rulings thus far