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Originally posted by relentless1
Are u kidding me, batman has some of the greatest minds to contend with; lex, mr terrific, brainiac, Ray palmer, ivo, to morrow, John Henry irons etc etc

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Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Apart from Lex, none of those are in opposition to him....I thought we were talking about their villains.

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Originally posted by Star428
You obviously don't know much about Braniac.

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Originally posted by Rezactic
Didn't even see that, I don't know jack about Beast, all I said was that he was on Marvel's top 8 where Otto wasn't.

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Originally posted by riv6672
Well, Marvel has a majority of comics' greatest minds, so Peter's standing there is dependent on that. He's in the tougher division.
To paraphrase Daniel Tosh, Batman's the Patriots. Easy for him to make it to the play offs when he's got the Dolphins, the Bills, and the Jets to contend with....

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Originally posted by JayDaDon
Punking Stark, The Avengers with his plans and going on to world domination with only Spidey being in his way to stop him puts him in the big leagues of geniuses. You say he needs ALOT more huh, name 5 things Beast did that were more impressive than that to land him in the top 8 geniuses of marvel.

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Originally posted by Rezactic
Apparently Marvel doesn't think so.

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Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Apparently MODOK acknowledges Otto as his superior.

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Originally posted by relentless1
so my response is to list all the great minds in DC, any questions??

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Originally posted by riv6672
No questions.
I never said DC didnt have any great minds.
But
Marvel is the science universe.
Marvel has some of the best minds in comics, though, both heroes and villains. Their great minds are some of their top tier characters, front and center.
DC has great minds like Batman an Luthor, who are more planners and tech co opters than anything, and second stringers like Ray Palmer and John H. Irons who occasionally get the spot light.

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Originally posted by riv6672
No questions.
I never said DC didnt have any great minds.
But
Marvel is the science universe.
Marvel has some of the best minds in comics, though, both heroes and villains. Their great minds are some of their top tier characters, front and center.
DC has great minds like Batman an Luthor, who are more planners and tech co opters than anything, and second stringers like Ray Palmer and John H. Irons who occasionally get the spot light.

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Originally posted by relentless1
Are u kidding me, batman has some of the greatest minds to contend with; lex, mr terrific, brainiac, Ray palmer, ivo, to morrow, John Henry irons etc etc

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I'm not going to go through all of these, because to be frank a lot of them are superfluous and don't deserve mention based on their feats or the paucity of their appearances.

In your first tier 'mortal' guys, you're going to have the cosmically smart. Here you'll have Brainiac 1, Brainiac 3 (Lyrl), Brainiac 5, Sardath, Alexander Luthor, and probably T.O. Morrow. You'd also have Superman 1 Million and Batman 1 Million, most likely, if you care to count them. Each of those has done something truly astounding.

Brainiac 3 just created a Solaris-Class stellar supercomputer, Pulsar Stargrave, by collapsing a pulsar. This makes it the most sophisticated super computer in the universe. He's a 12th level intelligence, which puts him on par with Brainiac 5. Now Brainiac 1 just, on the fly, created a device to contain/hold a rampaging Pulsar Stargrave (ie, contain Solaris). He's also demonstrated the ability to shrink cities down, his tech was co opted to create a planet out of nothing, and he easily destroyed a star/sun. Brainiac 5 has created a number of crazy devices, perhaps most impressive being the "Concentrator", which literally absorbs/utilizes/concentrates every joule of energy in the ENTIRE universe into whatever effect the user wants. It's...disturbing. He's got other feats as well, of force fields and coming up with cures for this and that, outsmarting vast artificial intelligences, etc.

Sardath has created the Zeta Beam, which allows instantaneous transportation across the universe. He also invented the Omega Beam, which allows the transfer of VAST amounts of matter into energy, so much so that it was threat to the universe -- had Starbreaker gotten his hands on it, he would have converted all matter in the universe to energy and absorbed it all. Even normal Zeta Beam tech can teleport planets, though, as demonstrated in a recent issue of REBELS.

Alexander Luthor really only just has the one feat, but it's kind of a doozy. He created a device to literally manipulate the multiverse, combining and separating universes at his whim. Insanity.

T.O. Morrow is probably the only normally earth guy who deserves a mention here. He apparently learned to 'unlock the hidden space between dimensions' when he was 14 (ie, dimensional creation), he's created time machines and vast super computers that alter reality via time manipulation. He also turns iPods into death rays and creates synthetic souls (Tomorrow Woman, Red Tornado).

Metron is almost a cut above, but since Alexander Luthor got mentioned, I'll give him a shout out. He's created Boom Tubes and the Worlogog and the Moebius Chair, he helped develop the Mother Box (with Himon), controls Hypertime, etc.


Next would come the really big science guys. I this grouping might be The Chief, Ray Palmer, Prof. Ivo, Will Magnus, Professor Nichols, and maybe Mr. Terrific.

The Chief has invented a time machine, replaced the JLA's abilities with tech approximations, brought Rita back from the dead with just a piece of her skull, created nanobots that could literally do anything, including create a being so powerful that he was throwing his victims through the fourth wall into 'our' reality. And it looks like he's going to discover away to alter his genes so that he becomes Kryptonian.

Ray Palmer cracked the Hourman virus when Superman 1 Million said that only a Solaris class stellar computer could do so, created a time machine, created boom tube like teleportation devices, co created a device that made the user's wish come true, figured out how to neutralize a universe destroying cosmic phenomenon that hadn't ever been discovered, has been described as having a mind like the world's largest harddrive, and created the greatest shrinking technology in comics (in terms of power, range and versatility).

Prof. Ivo created Amazo and Tomorrow Woman, two of the physical most potent androids in comics, especially Amazo. He created a serum that made him immortal, he's created countless powerful androids.

Will Magnus has created a device that creates portals between dimensions/universes, the responsometers of the Metal Men which basically means he created souls out of code, flying cars controled and powered by his thoughts, etc.

Professor Nichols created a time machine and a "Maybe Machine" that predicts the future based up suppositions/questions one asks it, a sort of "What if.."

I wouldn't have put Mr. Terrific on here but for the fact that lately Robinson has been giving him a bit of a push, as he was able to create a device that destroyed all the Black Lanterns in a tri state area -- the only tech feat I know of to have accomplished such a thing -- and he's currently working on a way to defeat the Starheart. He also figured out how to travel through time, and his T-spheres are crazy advanced.

Next level down might be the more 'normal' geniuses, and this one covers a wider range IMHO. At the top of this level, maybe even pushing up into the higher level, you've got Steel and Lex Luthor, and then more in the middle you've got Batman and Gizmo. Steel is the engineer of the group, retrofitting time machines (though not building them from scratch, which is a strike against) and building all kinds of crazy powerful suits and nanotech and what not.

Lex Luthor vacillates (Post-Crisis) between being a business man and being a genius. Many of his greatest 'works' have been attributed to his staff. Lately he's made a bit of a comeback as an evil genius, having combined time pool technology with kryptonian weaponry to change the sun to red and various things like that, but he's not a straight up scientist guy anymore, and I doubt he will be shown to be in the upcoming Action run with Paul Cornell. If you take Pre-Crisis into account you're talking about putting him up at the cosmic level as he's making time machines out of orange juice boxes and tin foil.

RIP is a specialist in time, and pretty much only makes time technology. He's good at what he does, but it's limited inherently, and doesn't deserve to be listed along with all the polymaths above.

Anarky is a tough one to gauge as he didn't have a huge number of appearances, but from what little saw -- the way he was able to calculate the coming of the great threat to reality and figure out a way to defeat it, creating a Boom Tube home-made, finding ways to alter the minds of everyone in Gotham...he's probably in "big science" level, albeit at the lower level.

Calc and Oracle are great hackers/computer people, but aren't polymaths on the level of any of the above. They are about equal, with an edge to Oracle.

Sivanna doesn't have very many appearances. I think writers generally think of him on the Big Science level, but from what he's actually done I'd put him at the very low end of that level or about on par with Lex Luthor. He's created dimensional travel, suspendium (frozen time particles), and weapons that have lifted entire cities and badly hurt kryptonian level foes.

And one thing to note -- Hiro, the asian Toyman, got revealed to be a robot all along during Johns' Action Comics run. He's just an artificial intelligence created by Schlott (who probably deserves a mention...he only really makes robots, but they are so sophisticated that no one on the planet can apparently tell that they are robots, including Superman and Batman).

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Originally posted by Golgo13
You keep saying that, but I already matched most of Marvel minds with DC. DC is a universe of science as well. Luthor, Palmer, The Chief, Sivana, Ivo, the NUMEROUS Brainiac's, etc...

DC actually has a deeper catalog of super geniuses.

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Originally posted by Rezactic
Jus curious but what have Chief, Sivana and Ivo done? All I know is that Ivo created Amazo

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Originally posted by Golgo13
You keep saying that, but I already matched most of Marvel minds with DC. DC is a universe of science as well. Luthor, Palmer, The Chief, Sivana, Ivo, the NUMEROUS Brainiac's, etc...

DC actually has a deeper catalog of super geniuses.