Mace Windu somehow survives his fall from Palpatine's office and comes back (with a new hand) to take out Vader. He confronts Vader after Kanan and Ezra escaped in Rebels. Who wins?
1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All out
Vader in all 3. Better than Palpatine and with the new TK feats + Lucas' statement of being 80 percent of Palpatines' power (with said feats to back that up) probably makes Vader whomp.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
I forgot who exactly said this, but some Clone Wars vet when he saw Vader said that before he met him, the most potent expression of the Dark side he's ever felt was Kar Vastor but now that he met Vader, Vader>>>him completely. Mace had difficulty with Kar Vastor in Shatterpoint, although there should have been some circumstances IIRC.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Nick Rostu says Kar Vastor wouldn't stand a chance against Darth Vader and that Vader was far more powerful. On the other hand Mace Windu admits he wouldn't beat Vastor on his best day.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Unless you believe that Depa and Kenobi > Windu, or that Windu is like a padawan next to Yoda as a duelist even though official sources saying otherwise.
Vastor was younger, stronger, faster, and immensely more powerful, and he wielded weapons that could not be harmed by the Jedi blade. Mace couldn't win such a battle on his best day, and this day was far from his best: he was exhausted, badly wounded, and heartsick.
—Shatterpoint
Beside being exhausted, badly wounded, and heartsick, Mace was also on a DS Nexus. Which we know is not something he can draw on:
The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light.
—Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
That quote implies that while Mace is Dooku's equal on neutral ground, he is not on a DS Nexus.
Oh, and Mace is already contradicted. He said Vastor is faster? Well:
Vastor still could whip his arms in blindingly fast raking slaps at Mace's head and wounded neck. But where Vastor's speed was blinding, Mace's was invisible. Not one of those slaps connected. Before Vastor could even focus his eyes, Mace had hit him six times.
—Shatterpoint
Their whole exchange was when Vastor was double amped, and Mace was pre-prime. Not just by timeline (Shatterpoint is in 22BBY, at the start of the war), but mentally as well:
There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to be feared.
He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power.
—Revenge of the Sith
———
With all that aside Vader is still more powerful, just using Vastor for that is kinda incorrect.
I'd say Windu wins sabers, he is more skilled and pretty fast too, Vader's strength I doubt would turn that around.
Vader wins the other two though, handily in Force.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Fair enough, nice research.
Vader being above Sidious in sabers due to raw skill, not a Vaapad loop as was the case in Windu's victory. I would say Vader is certainly more skilled in sabers.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
This is the moment that defines Mace Windu. Not his countless victories in battle, nor the numberless battles his diplomacy has avoided. Not his penetrating intellect, or his talents with the Force, or his unmatched skills with the lightsaber.
—Revenge of the Sith Novel
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
That's before Vader's time though and is more talking about his efforts within the Jedi Order itself. Vader's time, the Dark Times, puts him above Palps however.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Well it's says unmatched, even if it would only include the Order (which there is no proof of) it would mean Mace > Yoda. Yoda who disarmed Sidious, and Sidious constantly tried to create distance so he doesn't have to engage Yoda blade to blade.
As for Vader, his quote is coming from the TFU II guide. Which is before ANH. During ANH Vader fought evenly with Ben Kenobi, who was a serious threat to him, yet they were both called a shadow of their former self. Prime Kenobi being at best equal to Mace would suggest that Mace >= Prime Kenobi > ANH Vader >= Ben Kenobi > TFU II Vader.
So that accolade is not the end-all and be-all imo.
Firstly Lightsaber skill has a much broader meaning than just Fencing skill. Given Jedi don't have sword to sword fights for 90%+ of their Saber wielding time.
Second it was Mace's own opinion. Not canon fact. Mace also tells Obi-Wan that him and Kenobi are peers in swordmanship.
And Thirdly in a sword fight Power in the Force tends to play at least as important a part as Skill, if not more so.
Nov 19th, 2015 05:47 AM
