Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
This is the director explaining the scene and what is occurring. He was also talking to Rey and letting his guard down feeling himself in the moment. We also do not know what will take place in episode 9.
He clearly stated its not even his place to say now that its part of the wider canon.
He says we get to interpret it based on the larger canon.
He made that clear before saying anything.
So where Galan is giving facts from the canon (the correct thing to do as per Rian Johnson), you are taking one guys opinion, who did not even fee it was his place to give said opinion.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
You are free to believe Snoke is 3 feet tall for all I care. Rian explained the thought process of the scene which is corroborated by what I interpreted. Kylo waits till an opportunity presents itself and while Snoke lets his guard down aka distracted he strikes.
The director also showed us what Snoke was doing on screen. He was sensing Kylo's thoughts(or what he believed were Kylo's thoughts) through the force the entire time. The canon novel corroborates this fact.
So again, the only logical way for Kylo to dupe Snoke's TP like that, is if Kylo's psi abilities were superior -- which they weren't. This is one of the reasons why the scene makes no logical sense.
If Snoke was "distracted", he was distracted by Kylo's own thoughts... Which is equally as stupid for the same reasons.
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Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
His true enemy was true since there was a light saber next to both himself and Rey. So what he thought was true but Snoke assumes it meant Rey and not himself while dropping his guard. He was bragging about Reys death and rubbing it in her face.
As mentioned, Kylo hiding who his real "true enemy" was, hiding which lightsaber was really turning, hiding who he was really going to strike down, etc. implies that he was capable of hiding his actual thoughts from Snoke... Which subsequently implies that his psi abilities were superior.
But as explicitly mentioned in the canon novel: Snoke-level psi was vastly beyond Kylo-level psi. IOW, Kylo shouldn't have logically been able to hide shit from Snoke.
The scene is nonsensical, quan.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
He turns both lightsabers at the same time making it line up. He was distracted since he was not paying attention to the room just Kylos mind. No, it is not since both lightsabers turning and being so close could fool you if you were not paying attention to the room and just his mind.
That's what I'm saying, though: it *shouldn't* have fooled Snoke.
Snoke possesses vastly superior TP, and was actively probing Kylo's mind when this happened. Kylo randomly being able to hide the fact that he was about to murder him makes no sense when you consider the huge disparity between their psi abilities.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 10th, 2018 at 07:06 PM
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
If he did not close his eyes he would have been aware of the lightsaber to his side moving but he was arrogant. He just learned the location of Luke so he felt hope was about to be destroyed as soon as he flew to Lukes island. He was feeling himself. We see this all the time in fiction, Maul lording over Kenobi in TPM, Sidious having yoda at his mercy and standing around for yoda to forcepush him backwards while standing around feeling himself in the moment.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Saying he cannot be betrayed, defeated, etc. was feeling himself. He was arrogant just as Sidious was against yoda and Maul was against Kenobi. Happens quite often in Star Wars and all of fiction.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
He was arrogant in the scene I agree. If he paid attention to the room and watched the saber to his side move he would have been ready to fend him off. In that scene he reveled in his arrogance. He saw his mind not the room. Both sabers move at once so this was the perfect opportunity to pull this off. You can hate that scene all you want but he is arrogant and not paying attention to the room aka distracted.
I'm obviously talking about when Snoke said: "I see his mind. I see his every intent. Yeeesss! I see him turning the lightsaber to strike true. And now, foolish child, he ignites it and KILLS his true enemy!"
He was probing Kylo's mind there...Reading his thoughts...Sensing his emotions. Etc. Point being: a force-user of Snoke's caliber shouldn't have needed to physically see the lightsaber rotating to know it was happening.
But despite actively reading his mind, Snoke was still unable to sense the fact that Kylo was going to murder him... And it's not like Kylo was some master at concealing his emotions: (please log in to view the image)
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So yeah...
I mean, I could probably use that showing as a means to lowball Snoke if I were so inclined. However, I am firmly of the opinion that his psi abilities >>>> Kylo's(because that's what canon explicitly states.) So I just chalk it up to PIS-related inconsistency.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Ok, ok where to begin. Yes, Kylo has had many moments of impulse control issues but this was not one of them. We see he composes himself before killing Solo as well. Later in the film he loses it and becomes completely incensed. The same thing happens here he is composed, very driven and emotionless in this scene. Later in the film he completely reverts back to incensed I will kill Luke Skywalker to death.
His emotions were true but sensing who his true enemy was making Snoke unaware that was him. Kylo probably kept who was his true enemy hidden from his own thoughts to purposely mislead him. So as he shuts his eyes he assumes Rey as the saber moves in her direction as well as towards him but since they are closed he is distracted to the room around him.
Snoke is greater than Kylo clearly in his abilities/powers but that does not mean a lesser foe cannot deceive him in the right situation. Snoke was too arrogant in the scene like past Star Wars villains. If he opened his eyes he would have realized she is not the true enemy it was him. That is why the words true enemy are a deception to make him believe it was Rey. He could still see his mind and his intent but was not alert to what was around him due to his arrogance and the use of his other senses.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Oct 10th, 2018 at 08:05 PM
As Snoke was actively reading his mind, Kylo was actively positioning the lightsaber to kill him. This tells us that Kylo had clear murderous intent in mind *while* Snoke was probing his thoughts.
I agree that Snoke was arrogant, but he was still reading Kylo's mind literally up until the moment he was killed... Yet was somehow completely unable to sense his impending doom, despite having FAR more powerful TP than his apprentice. If we're not doing the most logical thing we can do in this situation, and just writing that showing off as inconsistent PIS, then it ends up making Snoke look quite a bit worse, imo. /shrug
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
He did have murderius intent but believed his true enemy was Rey. In his arrogance he dropped his guard closed his eyes and reveled in his glory. I never use pis ever. Think what you want my views match rian Johnsons because thats how I interpreted the scene.
Oct 10th, 2018 04:37 PM
